One of the bosses

[Deleted account DD]

This guy earns well over £100k pa, he directs a large police force, they are very heavily IT orientated but he does seem to be struggling, see if you can work out from the screen exactly what he is typing about 35 seconds in :augie:augie:augie:augie:augie:D:D

<iframe title="YouTube video player" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jQJtQcMcYmU" allowfullscreen="" width="640" frameborder="0" height="390"></iframe>

[solarman216]

how about gobbledygook, Rick

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

err password = "password"?

[clivvy]

haaaaahahahahhahaah !! what a plonker!!!

[lacroupade]

he's 'plodding' along that keyboard alright.

Let the PunFest commence.......:thumbs

[jace]

i always wonder why we have chief execs/constables etc they are so far removed from day to day activities and are told what to do say/do by spin drs and minions,big savings by getting rid of the post!

[lacroupade]

Resident rozzer on BarryBoys sez....:)

Anyway, Police Pay:

It's been overdue a shake up for a while now. It breaks down into areas that are best addressed separately:

Basic Pay:
I don't think we're overpaid for what we do. My pay fairly reflects my work, and I'd say I'm paid correctly, compared to my peers in private sector. The report doesn't propose a blanket pay cut, but it does propose not moving up the pay scale for a ocuple of years, meaning a real-terms pay cut. Our 3 year sub-inflationary pay deal also ended last year, meaning that we'll probably get nothing this year. So, ask me again in 2013 whether my pay is adequate. One thing that does annoy me is the statement "Police are paid 10% more than other emergency service workers"... So is this a race to the bottom then? And how do you equate a Police Officer with a Nurse or a Paramedic? A Paramedic probably saves 100 times as many lives as a Police Officer, should they not be paid 100X more??

Overtime:
This is the rub. Overtime is unbelievably complex in the Police Service. You get paid time and a half for being warned to wrk wit hless than 15 days notice, and double time for being warned with less than five days notice. This has all but dried up in the last 2 years as we've got far, far better at managing the policing requirements for big events. Specialist units get budgets from councils to do overtime patrols or operations, and I've worked on teams where people have earned double their pay packet ever month in Overtime for months on end. The thing is, it's ALWAYS these same people. I once worked as much as it was possible to work in a month (i.e. time off only to sleep, worked every rest day etc) and at the end of the month the pay packet was big, but it simply wasn't worth it, and it certainly wasn't sustainable. Certain people, however, routinely find themselves on these units, they hunt them out, they make sure they are being paid for every waking hour, and frankly, they take the piss out of the system and out of people like me. I use overtime when it's needed, for example there's a prisoner in the cells who I'm processing and I have to finish that job that might be 4-6 hours overtime, at around £20 an hour cost to the tax payer.
As an example, I've earnt no more than £200 overtime in any month in the last year, and I live very comfortably within those means. I know of one officer who was my forces highest paid PC for 3 years running, and actually had to be told to stop doing Overtime or else he would be subject ton investigation. What did he do with his cash? He spent all that hard earned overtime, time away from his family and children, on a brand new RX-8, one of the hardest depreciating cars ever known. I could buy one with less miles on than his now, with pocket money.

The people who hunt out overtime tend to be strong characters, and if challenged they tend to point out their units sucess, or how hard working they are, and the Chief Officer then backs down for fear of rocking the boat. Of course all officers are tarred with that brush, so it looks very much like our overtime is going to be seriously restricted.

Pension:
The "old" police pension is frankly ridiculous... I can only hope that its benefits arent' changed retrospectively for me, but I expect them to be as they simply aren't sustainable. The new pension is fairer, but much worse to be on. At least the service as a whole has already moved in the correct direction on that one. Likelyhood if my pension contributions will increase from 11% to more like 15% in the future, although to buy an equivalent pension package (which no-one would sell you!) should be more like 35%!

Fitness test:
Yes please, more like this. You can't sit in an office clicking a screen and say you do a stressful and dangerous job. If you expect to be paid as a police officer, you should be as versatile and active as one. There is a real trend of officers after their 15th year becoming "entitled" to a cushy run down in the second half of their career.... Sorry, you're 40 not 60. In fact, many of the 60 year olds put them to shame and are still active and competent officers. If you are a police officer, then a basic level of fitness (and it would be incredibly basic) should be expected and tested. If you fail it 2 years in a row, you should be looking for work as you aren't fit for the demanding role of an active officer, IMO. Allowances could be made for those injured in the line of work - I've got several mates who've suffered horrific injuries at work, and yet they're back in office roles doing important jobs. Ironically, they're the ones who would give everything to be back outside, but are stuck behind a desk, and they shouldn't be penalised for being run over or stabbed.

The overall conditions:
The problem with that is I do work in a job where I can be told I'm not leaving until the boss says so, and I can (and have) been phoned up at 2am and told to be at work as soon as I can get there. I have to plan holidays around a myriad of court Dates and committments, and god forbid I get it wrong because if I do then i have to come home at my own expense, or else be unemployed when I come back from holiday... I'm not complaining, I choose to do my job because I love it, primarily, but I do feel that some of the impositions it places on my life are worthy of a few quid to balance out.
I'm welcoming of "skills based bonuses". At present, after 2 years of training and assessment to become a Detective, I get paid no differently to a uniform police officer with no specialist skills. Likewise, firearms officers receive no extra pay for their massively increased responsibility. Instead, "guaranteed overtime" is the norm as an incentive to do that role. That's unacceptable, and should be properly reflected in basic pay, IMO.

So, all in all, I hope things don't get too shitty before the whole situation turns round, and I hope that the current 'crisis' isn't used as an excuse to cut Police budgets to the bone. If pay gets substantially worse, then I will look for work elsewhere (but it would have to get a lot worse as so many benefits are very good). If pay gets that bad, then the talent will leave and corruption will return and very quickly the organisation will rot. That said, with other sectors losing jobs and benefits left right and centre, you can't make an argument that the police must be exempt. I hope that cuts are made in the right places (Overtime - Useless Officers - Procurement) and won't affect the service we give to the public too much....

[jace]

dont higher ranks get promoted just before they retire so's to qualify for bigger pension,most then come back as consultants for more money!

[slimlfc68]

you fools can,t you tell he was only touching 2 keys L O L O L O :lol:lol:lol

[macabethiel]

I retired from the Fuzz in May 2003 after 26 or so years service on the then age limit of 55 years.
I did not want to extend my service on a rolling 12 month contract as 12 hour shift were killing me. It was hard work being a Custody Sergeant in a busy cell complex dealing with drug addicts and Mentally Ill Prisoners I recon I earnt my pay as did the Miners back in the 1970's.
I joined the force in 1971 but in 1973 I left as on a take home wage of £68 a month including compulsory overtime of 16 hours a month
I could not keep my wife and one daughter even though I was provided with a Police House on that sort of wage. I left to go into the Motor trade for a salary that was three times greater with a company car as well. I re-joined the Police after my Divorce and re-marriage in 1979 with a drop of wages amounting to about £1000 a year and lost my company car & fuel.

When the Edmund-Davies pay review was implimented in 1979 we had a lot of catching up to do and by about 1999 I think the pay awards should have been capped as the money was quite good.

When I retired I just benefited from the competency awards in the last few months of my service it amounted to £750 a year extra but is not pensionable.

I never thought Officers on day jobs should have earned the same as those doing full shifts. Right up tp my last working day I was working 12 hour days and 12 hour nights with only Bank Holidays as overtime or the very odd bit of sickness cover.

As I fell short of the 30 years service for a full pension I retired on about 50 % of my basic pay. I am not complaining but until I draw my old age pension in 2 years time its not enough for me and the Missus to live on. I paid 11.25 % of my pay into the Police Pension Scheme it was usually £160-180 a month in contributions for the last ten years or so.

Now that the country is in a mess even the Police are going to have to take a hit. The Government froze my pension this year in contravention of the contract I signed up to so its already affecting me anyway.

[Deleted account DD]

I have no problem with modernisation. Ive behaved myself and worked hard :augie theres not enough dirt to bin me.

Getting rid of silly very high overtime rates, no problem. Getting rid of certain allowances. No problem. Pay freeze, reluctantly , no problem. I dont do nights (apart from on call) but i think its great and about time a shift allowance is paid to those who do.

However when they start taking money off me or anyone else for doing things right i get really really pissed off. Thats a breach of contract.

This report is flawed. It's selective (compares us with a different group raging from vets to teachers on each example they make,wtf, cant even prove the point by staying consistantlywith one group)and political. Dont even go down the pension argument. yes its great. We get it at a relatively early age but by that time most of us are physically crocked and to get the reward i have paid into it at 11% for my working life. Can anyone match that rate? not many im confident. ANY of the whingers could do the same for themselves, its called additional voluntary contributions.

Ive spent my working life serving this god forsaken country and the politicians who run it and now when i thought i was actually gong to see some return on that work i get kicked in the knackers.

I always said i would consider but probably wouldnt strike if push came to shove. Sorry folks but if i could id be out tomorrow.

Just think about this. Yes theres loads of jobs that do things like face danger, make life or death decisions, deal with the dregs of society etc etc etc . Well we actually chase after danger and deal on a daily basis with lots of the rest of that endless list.

Pissed off?? you ******* bet i am.

[Deleted account DD]

oh and for those who are drawing the pension, make the most of it. The current Winsor proposals are the short term ideas , long term ideas next report.

Then to put the icing on the cake , the pension review.

**** the lot of em.

[Deleted account DD]

how about gobbledygook, Rick

:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2

aka management speak :lol

[Deleted account DD]

dont higher ranks get promoted just before they retire so's to qualify for bigger pension,most then come back as consultants for more money!


Many try, a lot of them used to, tbh hasnt happened that much of late :thumb2

Happened at all levels.

[Deleted account DD]

I never thought Officers on day jobs should have earned the same as those doing full shifts.




Prior to the new proposal which is a good one, there was no real answer to that and it HAD to be uniformity all round.

Those who managed a whole thirty years without getting crocked are the lucky minority and provision HAS to be made for those who dont. As far as they are concerned a day job IS a full shift :thumb2

[jace]

are police not alowed to strike/have union? work to rule being our only weapon? bet most overtime came from prisoners in police cells when prisons full.
i dont think less oficers will mean more crime,people arent suddenly going to go on rampage because theres x amount less coppers in there area and apart from motorists most crime is detected by someone telling the police whos commited it,not police actualy catching them in act!

[macabethiel]

It got a lot of bad press but I thought 90% of the Sheehey Report was spot on.

I think the timing was an issue as a lot of criticism was made of poorly performing officers many of whom were the backbone of the force when pay was bad in earlier years.

I thought The Police Federation went a bit OTT at the time. If we had negociated instead of spitting our dummy out it might have turned out much better.

[Deleted account DD]

Whatever your view of the police and their failures or success, there will be more failures and bad news if all of this is implemented.

The reason for that is so simple theyre either ignoring it or overlookng it trying to be clever looking beyond.

Policing is not as simple as they would have you believe. First question is what actually is the so called tabloid and govt developed group of "front line" ? no definition has ever been published anywhere. Lots of debate and opinion but no set criteria.

What is percieved as the front line, ie uniformed response and neighborhoods despite the generally excellent work they do imho , are only a small part in a very big picture.

Behind them you have massive support and investigative set ups who like them generally do a great job.

The crux is those units are usually staffed by experienced or well switched on cops.

The new proposals quite simply dont support retention of those groups.

I genuinely believe you will see a situation, hopefully not in my lifetime, where policing is 100% fire brigade response. ie dash out biff a burglar and do nothing else and an experienced cop will be one who has dry ink on their sign on papers.

Its all masked in political speak, police bashing and excuses but theres no way this review will increase the quality of policing in the UK, it physically cant.

Right to strike? no we dont have that. What we do have is a situation (certainly in my job) where we are security cleared to a high level, i have to be aware of and notify as applicable who i live with , associate with even where i live and loads more. I hold an "office" dont just have a job. Thats how they justify that.

What theyre doing now though is enforcing employee conditions on us that dont reconise the restrictions on us.

My argument is if i have straightforward employee conditions , i want employee rights including the right to strike. The silence on the line marked response is deafening.

Honest Jace , its ******* nightmare for everyone including your good selves.

[Deleted account DD]

It got a lot of bad press but I thought 90% of the Sheehey Report was spot on.

I think the timing was an issue as a lot of criticism was made of poorly performing officers many of whom were the backbone of the force when pay was bad in earlier years.

I thought The Police Federation went a bit OTT at the time. If we had negociated instead of spitting our dummy out it might have turned out much better.


I think some elements of it were ok. I happily support any measures to get rid of lazy gits but sheehy tried to go in too deep too faston more than that imho

Problem is each generation has its own battles but the next sees the result as the norm because they dont know any differently.

[jace]

oh i agree mate lots goes on behind scenes and as with any big org the ones who can suck arse and speak the mumbo jumbo will get promoted yet the real valuable and exsperianced ones who refuse to bull shit will be pensioned off leaving a vacuam!
the spin machine has started moving against you already,allowences at x amount,overtime at x amount every other civil servant blah blah death by thousand cuts mate!

[Deleted account DD]

Its a nightmare :doh

tbh the missus and i will be ok, not as well off as we hoped to be but ok. But I do genuinely worry for many of my more vulnerable colleagues who feel the pinch already.

Just to put it in perspective, the Nissan factory production ops (and good luck to themm they promote the UK economy) earn more than a young in service cop.

One last point to those who maybe see Winsor as a good sensible sort.........

One of his previous forays into government sub contracting was as the rail regulator. If thats the best his cv can spew out we all need to be very afraid :(

[jace]

i remember delivering to sunderland nissan i came back to gate empty middle of night no one else about,the jobsworth in gate wouldnt open barrier or come out to tell me why,it turned out i was at the inn side not out side gate had to back up move across to correct gate to be let out! i couldve understood if i was blockin acess but no soddin one there lol!