Pls Help! Towing weight woes!!

[cm2581]

I've just recently bought a Nissan Terrano from a reputable car dealer. It is 10 years old and is a top spec model (2.7 Tdi SE+) and is an automatic. I missed the fact that the car was an automatic when I read the advert (doh!!) but wasn't put off by this fact when I saw it. I did however say to the salesman that I needed to know the max towing weight as although I knew the manual was 2.8 tonnes, I didn't know the automatic's towing capacity. I clearly stated that I needed a vehicle that towed AT LEAST 2.5 tonnes. He looked in the manual and couldn't find details. I said think there is a plate on the vehicle sometimes that says it. Found a plate with numbers under the bonnet but not telling what the numbers were. Top number 2580, then 4280. I said I think that is towing weight (top) and gross train weight below. He said I will check on a website we use to confirm. He went inside and returned in a few mins to say that the 2580 was the max towing weight. I subsequently bought the car but have just found out through a few internet searches that it may only be capable of towing 1.7 tonnes!!! Therefore it is totally useless for towing my horse trailer with two big horses in it!!!! I traded in a mondeo as it could only tow 1.8 tonnes!! I would never have bought the monstrous thing if I'd known it couldn't tow my two in the trailer. Does anyone know where or how I could find out for certain what the towing capacity is? Thankfully both my boyfriend and father were present and whitnessed the salesman confirming the 2580 being towing weight. Does anyone know where I stand? Trading standards and consumer direct are on holiday till wednesday!! :-(

[lacroupade]

towing weight for the automatic is much lower than the manual and exceeding it will shag the gearbox eventually.

Its 2800 kgs on the manual and around 1750kgs on the auto from memory.

And if you specified the requirement during negotiations then the contract of sale is invalid.:thumb2

[cm2581]

so how easy is it to remove the towbar I had fitted?!!! I suppose i'll just have to suck it up and loose the £168 for the two new tyres I put on it! :(

[lacroupade]

so how easy is it to remove the towbar I had fitted?!!! I suppose i'll just have to suck it up and loose the £168 for the two new tyres I put on it! :(

six bolts and chop the wiring as close to the bodywork as possible.

As for tyres, potentially, unless you can swap them somehow, its a loss. Any chance the tyre depot still has the old ones at this time of year? For £10-20 to swap them its worth it? But see what the garage says first, they may wriggle a lot, especially if its the salesmans word against yours.....

[lacroupade]

http://www.parkers.co.uk/advice/TowingWeightCalc.aspx?mode=choose

Its actually only 1700 kgs.:(

and thats braked....

[cm2581]

Thanks for your help! It's a pity - it's a great car!! I just really need it to tow!That's why I bought it! But it is great in the snow! Will speak to trading standards before I speak to the garage and see what they say.

[lacroupade]

Thanks for your help! It's a pity - it's a great car!! I just really need it to tow!That's why I bought it! But it is great in the snow! Will speak to trading standards before I speak to the garage and see what they say.

Right thing to do, but they should tell you the same - if you specified a technical requirement clearly during negotiations and that requirement turns out not to have been met, then the contract has not been met and is invalid. But making that happen in the real world is a different kettle of fish, especially with a motor dealer who has banked his profit. You may need to be persistent, depends how reputable the dealer is.

But you are in the right and this is a significant enough issue, not like say expecting leather seats and getting cloth instead; this issue makes the vehicle unfit for purpose.

How much did you pay out of interest? The amount could mean that Small Claims Court is the best option.

[11redrex]

Swap it for a manual.

[cm2581]

It is a W reg (July 2000) spec above. Odometer reads 29k but have paperwork to confirm replacement dash at an Arnold Clarke dealer at 54k. Very good order, slight rust starting to bubble above front arch which I was going to get sorted. Lots of nice extras such as air con, cd multichanger, full leather interior. Now has four good tyres and may or may not have a towbar if I have to sell it privately! It was advertised at £3995 but when I went to see it it was £2995. They had dropped £1k off between me seeing advert and going to forecourt. Only saving grace!! Do you think I'd be able to sell it privately for what I paid for it?

[DEE]

Buy the same flavor But manual Keep well away from shoguns :doh :doh :doh :doh Nissan only :bow

[lacroupade]

It is a W reg (July 2000) spec above. Odometer reads 29k but have paperwork to confirm replacement dash at an Arnold Clarke dealer at 54k. Very good order, slight rust starting to bubble above front arch which I was going to get sorted. Lots of nice extras such as air con, cd multichanger, full leather interior. Now has four good tyres and may or may not have a towbar if I have to sell it privately! It was advertised at £3995 but when I went to see it it was £2995. They had dropped £1k off between me seeing advert and going to forecourt. Only saving grace!! Do you think I'd be able to sell it privately for what I paid for it?

well if you advertise it quickly you may not do too badly, but its a bit more than you'd pay privately TBH so getting it taken back would be the best option? But given recent weather you may be pleasantly surprised.

[(RIP) PLANK]

I'm glad i read this, i've been tmpted by an auto! :eek:

it is odd having such a big towing capacity difference.

I agree with the above advice go back to the dealer first!

[(RIP) PLANK]

I beleive the 2580 stamped on the plate is the gross vehicle weight, that is the maximum weight of the vehicle and any load/contents it is carrying.

compare with this:

http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews.html?mode=tech&id=87

it is for the 3.0 rather than the 2.7 but you can see what i mean!

[MudLifeCrisis]

Take it back to the dealer. As you specified you required a tow limit and the dealer has given you incorrect information , be it by mistake or intentionally, the car is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE and you are entitled to your money back under the sale of goods act.


Brian

[(RIP) PLANK]

the towing wieight is the train weight minus the gross weight both are on your plate;

4280 - 2580 = 1700 k

he pointed these figures out to you, but it seems he didn't understand them!

so take it back!

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

err can some of the the gvw be transsfered to tow weight

in other words if carrying full weight, then tow weight goes up.

after all same weight for the engine and box to move.

whats the kerb weight, take that off gross, get max load,

then add that to 1700, surely same as tugging 1700 and
carrying part of the load in the car. again provide gross train
weight isnt exceeded.

kerb of an auto might be up on a manual as slush box heavier
typically, think my lwb t2 was around 1800kg kerb weight
as that would give max load in car of 700 or so.

worth playing with maths if can keep car fairly empty, guess
depends how much tack? you would carry overall.

[MudLifeCrisis]

Unfortunately the maximum towing limit is just that , the maximum it can tow and can not be exceeded.

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

dont think max tow weight is legal issue, not like gross train.

more of a guide, ie weight car can get mving on a certain
gradient, think it used to be a 1 in 8.

shame as the british autos are far tougher than those found
in say mistrals ang gre imports where back in the jap home
land they dont tow like us and if do max tow is 750kg!

oh well prob best taking back, no boubt about the mis-sell
aspect.

also funny, sad, as on the auto troll, its 3500 tow weight
just like manual so that one must be heavy duty.

[lacroupade]

dont think max tow weight is legal issue, not like gross train.

more of a guide, ie weight car can get mving on a certain
gradient, think it used to be a 1 in 8.

shame as the british autos are far tougher than those found
in say mistrals ang gre imports where back in the jap home
land they dont tow like us and if do max tow is 750kg!

oh well prob best taking back, no boubt about the mis-sell
aspect.

also funny, sad, as on the auto troll, its 3500 tow weight
just like manual so that one must be heavy duty.

Its a good point because the 3.0 ltr T2 auto also has the same weight limit as the 3.0 ltr manual. Maybe its an issue with the autobox fitted to the 2.7? I'm certainly convinced that I buggered mine up ages ago by significantly exceeding the limit.

[felixthelogchopper]

Contract is void for mutual mistake ( Raffles v Wichelhaus ) as you thought you were buying something that you weren't, ie a vehicle capable of towing your horsebox. If the salesroom you bought from get sniffy about it, mention the fact that you were supposedly dealing with an expert in your position as an amateur and so their opinion is held to be legally relied upon as to the nature of the inducement offered, namely the towing ability ( Esso Petroleum Co. Ltd v Mardon ). Above all, this is what Trading Standards are there for so let them do the hard work :thumbs

[lacroupade]

Contract is void for mutual mistake ( Raffles v Wichelhaus ) as you thought you were buying something that you weren't, ie a vehicle capable of towing your horsebox. If the salesroom you bought from get sniffy about it, mention the fact that you were supposedly dealing with an expert in your position as an amateur and so their opinion is held to be legally relied upon as to the nature of the inducement offered, namely the towing ability ( Esso Petroleum Co. Ltd v Mardon ). Above all, this is what Trading Standards are there for so let them do the hard work :thumbs

With respect, the Esso case was about a duff prediction of future sales volume, as opposed to a statement that a particular criteria would meet a parties specified requirement. Neither was this a 'mutual mistake' IMHO although I see where you are coming from....this is a clear cut case of misrepresentation by the seller (the alleged expert) in respect of a condition specified by the buyer.

And don't rely too heavily on Trading Standards in this case....they will probably advise both parties of what the law says in this situation, but if push came to shove it would still reuire legal action by the buyer to remedy the position.:thumb2

[(RIP) PLANK]

some interesint towing stuff can be found here:

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/towing-laws

TT2 bear inmind the traine wiegts stamped on vehicles are absolute when using a commercial variant, but i beleive there is some legal flexibility if it is a car, there was a test case in court where a Nissan serena was towing beyoind it's gross weight (delivering a car on a trailer). The nissan dealer claimed the train weight on the plate reffered to the van it was converted from (at the nissan factory) and not the car it now was - they won!

[cm2581]

AW HELP HELP HELP!!!

Nissan are saying 2.8 tonnes!! DVLA saying max towing weight (by law) is GVW (2580kg) - GTW (4280kg) as per stamped on the VIN plate!! Which equals 1700kg!! Garage trying to be helpful but said if Nissan say 2.8 tonnes then that's what it is!!! I then said about DVLA and he said Oh. He would need to look further into this to get clarification of the tow weight before taking anything any further! Where can I get something difinitive or someone who will tell them difinitively it is 1700kg?!!!!?


AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[cm2581]

PS I don't want to have to go to court to argue anything!!!

[cm2581]

Oh and whilst its all beautifully listed on Parkers, according to the sales manager, the motor trade have boycotted Parkers as they had conflicting and wrong information. But by his own addmission, Glass's don't have the vehicle's data!!!!!

[Deleted account DD]

At the end of the day, however you interpret any plate re gross train weight etc if you tow more than the rated spec of the vehicle, which for an auto T2 is way below youre required 2.5t, you have an unroadworthy vehicle.

You faceknacking your auto box , prosecution for overloading, and not being covered insurance wise :(

[cncfabs]

AW HELP HELP HELP!!!

Nissan are saying 2.8 tonnes!! DVLA saying max towing weight (by law) is GVW (2580kg) - GTW (4280kg) as per stamped on the VIN plate!! Which equals 1700kg!! Garage trying to be helpful but said if Nissan say 2.8 tonnes then that's what it is!!! I then said about DVLA and he said Oh. He would need to look further into this to get clarification of the tow weight before taking anything any further! Where can I get something difinitive or someone who will tell them difinitively it is 1700kg?!!!!?


AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
The definitive answer is on the vin plate if its says 1700kg then thats that.

[(RIP) PLANK]

this is interesting but no mention of difference between auto and manual:

http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1

as my above post said, the train wieght as on the pate reffers more to commercials than privte cars, i would call nissan and specify that it is an auto!

[(RIP) PLANK]

I've just phoned our local dealer and spoke to the service manager, his official nissan documents state no diffference manual to auto and a capacity of 2800 kilos for a 2.7 td and a 2.7 tdi. However the same document states the auto 3.0 can tow 2000k and the manual 3000k, so a tonne difference! which seems to be at odds with other opinions!

[rustic]

On another slant on your requirements, you mention you want to tow 2.5 tonne, have you actually weighed the trailer or the horses to check their actual weight, or are you going by the trailer plate and the vets estimate?

I have had my manual 2.7TD nearly 16 years and I was not aware of the much lower towing capacity of the Automatic.

It looks on paper then that the 2 litre mondeo could legally tow my boat and trailer, even though it is 26feet overall and close to 2 tonne.:eek:

Hmm..... I know what I would rather tow with.... :thumbs

[cm2581]

Trailer is 935kg empty. One horse is heavier than last time on weighbridge which was 635kg!! Other horse is a bit lighterweight but still a good 550kg. 2.1 tonnes would see me legal but 2.5 would give leway for big hills. I used to tow one horse in trailer with amondeo and it was rated to tow 1.8 tonnes. It was actually great at the job and never struggled!

[(RIP) PLANK]

Trailer is 935kg empty. One horse is heavier than last time on weighbridge which was 635kg!! Other horse is a bit lighterweight but still a good 550kg. 2.1 tonnes would see me legal but 2.5 would give leway for big hills. I used to tow one horse in trailer with amondeo and it was rated to tow 1.8 tonnes. It was actually great at the job and never struggled!

rmember if the gorss weight of your trailer as indicated on the plate, is greater than the gross towing weight of your car you can't tow it, regardless of whether it's full or empty! check the Ifor williams link i posted to check on this!

Having said all that - would I tow a trailer, carrying two horses with an automatic 2.7 Tdi T2? Yes i would!

[Deleted account DD]

Ive always fancied an auto. Hence one reason i have the car I now drive.

When I looked at T2s I do remember the tow limit on my manual was 2.8 tonnes. I also clearly remember everywhere I looked the auto was listed as a tonne or thereabouts less. The reason I remember this so clearly is because caravan we looking at was 1.6tonnes all up and I was gobsmacked it was so close to the limit for the auto.

The auto is limited by the auto box, its nothing to do with the stability or gross weight ( ie the 80% or otherwise match).

Seems a bit of a faux pas by nissan tbh.

[(RIP) PLANK]

on the other hand, i'm finding it difficult to find any info pointing to the 1.8 tonne limit for an auto, if anyone has any please post a link!

[lacroupade]

AW HELP HELP HELP!!!

Nissan are saying 2.8 tonnes!! DVLA saying max towing weight (by law) is GVW (2580kg) - GTW (4280kg) as per stamped on the VIN plate!! Which equals 1700kg!! Garage trying to be helpful but said if Nissan say 2.8 tonnes then that's what it is!!! I then said about DVLA and he said Oh. He would need to look further into this to get clarification of the tow weight before taking anything any further! Where can I get something difinitive or someone who will tell them difinitively it is 1700kg?!!!!?


AAAARRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Nissan who exactly? Have you phoned their UK head office (Beaconsfield I think?) and asked the? Or maybe someone has an original users manual.

Is the towing weight specd in the workshop manual I wonder?

[(RIP) PLANK]

Nissan who exactly? Have you phoned their UK head office (Beaconsfield I think?) and asked the? Or maybe someone has an original users manual.

Is the towing weight specd in the workshop manual I wonder?

I have an original usuers manual and it doesnt mention towing capacities, i've checked. And i called out local dealership who put me on hold whil ehe reffered to some other Nissan place to verify his ducmentation and 'on screen' info and he can't find reference to the difference between manual and auto.

[cncfabs]

I have an original usuers manual and it doesnt mention towing capacities, i've checked. And i called out local dealership who put me on hold whil ehe reffered to some other Nissan place to verify his ducmentation and 'on screen' info and he can't find reference to the difference between manual and auto.
FFS its all on the vin plate dont need to phone anyone!

[(RIP) PLANK]

FFS its all on the vin plate dont need to phone anyone!

read the thread, it's more complicated than that!

[lacroupade]

I have an original usuers manual and it doesnt mention towing capacities, i've checked. And i called out local dealership who put me on hold whil ehe reffered to some other Nissan place to verify his ducmentation and 'on screen' info and he can't find reference to the difference between manual and auto.

well you never know, could be looking at another eureka moment, in which case the OP will be a happy bunny.

But surely the user manual must cover towing weights somewhere?:nenau

[Deleted account DD]

FFS its all on the vin plate dont need to phone anyone!

it is indeed and as mentioned ealrier definitely clocks in at a tonne or more less than the manual :thumb2

Have a look at the plate then read this leaflet

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Quick%20Guide%20to%20Towing%20Small%20Trailers%20F eb%2008.pdf


Its all there and is the definitive answer


:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2

[lacroupade]

Fill this in and see what it tells us...

http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss98/Pawly/plate.jpg

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

its not on plate, 1700 is being presumed from a subtraction of gvw from gtw.

plank i think i read about cars versus commercials to point cars aren't limited
at all, still say max tow is based on restart on a hill. as for many cars not
trucks their tow weights are way over recommended 85% ratios for tin tents.

ok a car on a trailer doesnt have same sail effect as 'light but long' caravan.

if its NOT on plate, how is vosa/police going to dispute providing gtw
isnt exceed, and frankly a t2 will look lot less dodgy tugging horse box than
say mondeo.

i suspect if driven carefully, on on hills used in 'manual' mode will be no
issue at all, still far more anchor in ratio terms for the stable on wheels.

after all whats worst that can happen you knacker the slush box, ok not
fun but hardly a legal issue. the inferred reduced capacities are purely
warranty based, and whats that worth on a second hand motor buyer
beware etc...

[lacroupade]

its not on plate, 1700 is being presumed from a subtraction of gvw from gtw.



but are the numbers different for the manual? Wish I was at home in Wales and I could go outside and compare!:doh

[cm2581]

I'm at work so can't really go out AGAIN(!!!) to get the rest but here is what I do have.

B ****
C 2580
D 4280
E 1160
F 1460
J ****

dvla HAVE TOLD ME THAT D-C=LEGAL TOWING CAPACITY.

Phoned my local Nissan sales (as did the dealer I bought the car from which are two diff dealers) and they both said they didn't know and didn't have any data for the automatic. They suggested customer services who both me and the dealer phoned and we were both told (after much lengthly dealy!) that there is no diff between the auto and manual and both are 2.8 tonnes! Why the hell is it plated as above then?!!?!?!?!!!!!

[Deleted account DD]

The maths (as explained on that leaflet) , using the details which will be on the plate, provide the definitive answer, certainly in lawful terms and manf test rating.

UNLESS nissan have subsequently issued some kind of bulletin and not recalled to ammend the plates :nenau

Nissan dealer will have access to the database of all recalls etc so the answer is out there :D

[cm2581]

on the other hand, i'm finding it difficult to find any info pointing to the 1.8 tonne limit for an auto, if anyone has any please post a link!

http://www.parkers.co.uk/advice/TowingWeightCalcResult.aspx?Braked=True&model=606

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

just been on parkers

a 2.7tdi auto lwb is 1910 kg unladen aka kerb weight +/- little bit.

does say 1700kg for tow, versus 2800 kg for manual.

2.4 petrol and 2.7tdi manuals also 2800 ,

3.0 diesel 3000kg auto 2000kg.

but if go from trailer page say want trailer over 2400kg or so
and its offering audi a3s ffs.

back to our trucks can only say auto box seen as weak point
at manufacturer. guess for many caravanners 1700 would be
a problem til now with some top spec twin axles exceeding that
but sure your box and precious load are more,

now it looks like your train weight has been reduced too as i
think my manual terrano was 5200 or so.

at 2.5 tonnes even saying well 700kg are in terrano is going
to get tight or exceed.

surely enough evidence for mis sell, good luck hope we can
keep you as a member with a stick t2 or patrol.

[Deleted account DD]

I'm at work so can't really go out AGAIN(!!!) to get the rest but here is what I do have.

B VSKTVUR20U040991
C 2580
D 4280
E 1160
F 1460
J TVPURVAR20UEA--HHI

dvla HAVE TOLD ME THAT D-C=LEGAL TOWING CAPACITY.

Phoned my local Nissan sales (as did the dealer I bought the car from which are two diff dealers) and they both said they didn't know and didn't have any data for the automatic. They suggested customer services who both me and the dealer phoned and we were both told (after much lengthly dealy!) that there is no diff between the auto and manual and both are 2.8 tonnes! Why the hell is it plated as above then?!!?!?!?!!!!!


The tow limit on your vehicle to keep it safe, roadworthy and lawful is 1.7tonnes. End of. That plate tells the reader what weights to look for and is defiitive (barr very rare mitigation....see below) . Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it really is is that simple.

GCW apears to be nissan speak for gross train weight. GTW minus GVW is the most you can tow because thats the maximum overall weight you can take on the road as a combo. If you are subject to a check and you are towing 2.8 tonnes you will be prosecuted and probably prohibited because you are a significant 1.1 tonnes over.

The thoughts of the dealer are not relevant unless they can provide documentary evidence that type approval (or whatever the term nowadays is) has been reviewed and amended and your truck has slipped the net for a recall/revised plate. Nor is any other guide available in a magazine or on a web site unless they can back track to the dealer situation above.

You can tow and tug what the hell you want off the public roads but on them its definitely 1.7tonnes. :(

[(RIP) PLANK]

The tow limit on your vehicle to keep it safe, roadworthy and lawful is 1.7tonnes. End of. That plate tells the reader what weights to look for and is defiitive (barr very rare mitigation....see below) . Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it really is is that simple.

GCW apears to be nissan speak for gross train weight. GTW minus GVW is the most you can tow because thats the maximum overall weight you can take on the road as a combo. If you are subject to a check and you are towing 2.8 tonnes you will be prosecuted and probably prohibited because you are a significant 1.1 tonnes over.

The thoughts of the dealer are not relevant unless they can provide documentary evidence that type approval (or whatever the term nowadays is) has been reviewed and amended and your truck has slipped the net for a recall/revised plate. Nor is any other guide available in a magazine or on a web site unless they can back track to the dealer situation above.

You can tow and tug what the hell you want off the public roads but on them its definitely 1.7tonnes. :(

do you have a source for this? :thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

ps should have added dont get bogged down in axle weights etc for these calculations, they relate to the distribution of the load and are/can be often rectified on the spot :thumbs

[cm2581]

daved - this is exactly my opinion but WTF are Nissan doing saying otherwise?!!! The sales manager did admit he knew nothing about towing but was going to check with a friend of his who is a tow bar man. He seemed to think he should know. The only thing about the VOSA leaflet is it is not entirely clear that you couldn't go over 1700kgs if the towing vehicle was not fully laden. I very much doubt this is the case but I have a feeling the dealer will use it as a weasling issue.....!!!!

I wanna manual!!!!!!

[cm2581]

do you have a source for this? :thumb2

Yes sources!! Lots of sources!! I know it is 1700kgs I'm just trying to find it difinitively so the dealer can't do any weasly wriggling!!

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

well that seems definitive

just looked at the patrol's plate

3080/6580/1500/1800

well 6580 -3080 gives 3500 i know its good for

so 3080 must be gvw

others are front/rear axle max which combined are more
than gvw to allow loadings.

now 3500 is max for a b class vehicle, also stated by parker.

agreed d-c or whatever good rule of thumb

post script

parkers give patrol auto as 2500 tow, pretty sure thats not
in my handbook or troll brocheure.

[Deleted account DD]

do you have a source for this? :thumb2


are you asking for the staute? I'll have to dig the aide memoire out for that, havent dealt with one for ages.

What I can tell you is its one of those things thats as bread and butter as making sure you walk by putting one foot in front of the other. Been using these calculations for years.

One reason those figures exist is for roadside use, clear and unambiguous. Can you imagine a debate like tis at the roadside!! they are enforceable barring some rare mitigations. To be blunt since VOSA got stop check/roadside powers (2003 or therabouts??) theyve been doing most enforment on this.

They use a set of mobile weighing pads and use the data from the plate. the link here http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Quick%20Guide%20to%20Towing%20Small%20Trailers%20F eb%2008.pdf
id the public facing doc and if you look through it, it says one and the same thing.


Give me a mo to make a couple of calls :thumb2

[lacroupade]

Yes sources!! Lots of sources!! I know it is 1700kgs I'm just trying to find it difinitively so the dealer can't do any weasly wriggling!!

You need to ring Nissan UK - their customer services helpline is usually pretty good. Don't tell them about the dealer dispute, just say there are legal implications of getting it wrong. They should also be able to put you through to someone technical who can explain why the auto is so limited.

But as daved says, its the info on the plate that confirms it....can anyone say whats on their plate for the manual version?

[Deleted account DD]

daved - this is exactly my opinion but WTF are Nissan doing saying otherwise?!!! The sales manager did admit he knew nothing about towing but was going to check with a friend of his who is a tow bar man. He seemed to think he should know. The only thing about the VOSA leaflet is it is not entirely clear that you couldn't go over 1700kgs if the towing vehicle was not fully laden. I very much doubt this is the case but I have a feeling the dealer will use it as a weasling issue.....!!!!

I wanna manual!!!!!!

Youre stuck in the murky pool of poorly informed experts (at the dealers that is) They can read a part number, use the parts sytem computer, sell a truck or swipe a credit card but as far as an in depth understanding it doesnt really seem to exist beyond a guess :(

With all due respect to him I dnt think the tow bar man would be the expert either on this one because all the tow bars will propably be made to the higher spec ie 2.8 t so theres no cock ups :thumb2

[lacroupade]

Youre stuck in the murky pool of poorly informed experts (at the dealers that is) They can read a part number, use the parts sytem computer, sell a truck or swipe a credit card but as far as an in depth understanding it doesnt really seem to exist beyond a guess :(

With all due respect to him I dnt think the tow bar man would be the expert either on this one because all the tow bars will propably be made to the higher spec ie 2.8 t so theres no cock ups :thumb2

and the simple fact is it WILL tow a weight like that, but it WILL eventually shag the gearbox :bow

and neither, according to the plate, will it be legal if you are stopped......

[Deleted account DD]

Y

But as daved says, its the info on the plate that confirms it....can anyone say whats on their plate for the manual version?


My memory is crap but when I checked this when I bought mine, the maths using the same technique took me to the magic 2 point whatever tonnes figure (cant remember if its 2.7 or 2.8 :doh)

[cm2581]

You need to ring Nissan UK - their customer services helpline is usually pretty good. Don't tell them about the dealer dispute, just say there are legal implications of getting it wrong. They should also be able to put you through to someone technical who can explain why the auto is so limited.

But as daved says, its the info on the plate that confirms it....can anyone say whats on their plate for the manual version?

It was Nissan UK customer services that said to me and seperately to the dealer 2.8 tonnes! And that was technically correct and he would stand by that - Daniel was his name!! It's this being said by them that is my stumbling block with the dealer I bought the car from! :confused::confused::(

[Deleted account DD]

Give me a mo to make a couple of calls :thumb2

No luck

will get the legislation/act etc after I get back to work next week from VOSA contact

remind me on

:thumbs

[briggie]

It was Nissan UK customer services that said to me and seperately to the dealer 2.8 tonnes! And that was technically correct and he would stand by that - Daniel was his name!! It's this being said by them that is my stumbling block with the dealer I bought the car from! :confused::confused::(

i suggest you get it in writing from nissan uk , or ask for a second opinion from them

[cncfabs]

read the thread, it's more complicated than that!
Its not complicated at all the maximum trailer gross weight is calculated by subtracting the gvw from the gtw simple as that.

[Deleted account DD]

It was Nissan UK customer services that said to me and seperately to the dealer 2.8 tonnes! And that was technically correct and he would stand by that - Daniel was his name!! It's this being said by them that is my stumbling block with the dealer I bought the car from! :confused::confused::(

wouldn't criticise Daniel in any way shape or form, but if he is reading , interpreting or more relevantly misreading from a vdu screen.

We are talking about the same customer services who couldn't tell me or the local dealer what colours were used on the bottom half of the two tone 2002 trucks :rolleyes:

[lacroupade]

Its not complicated at all the maximum trailer gross weight is calculated by subtracting the gvw from the gtw simple as that.

cncfabs is correct, as is daved....heres the DoT link if the dealer needs any more convincing.....

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/towingwithvehiclesfrequently4577

and I'm telling you Nissan are wrong. I wish I still had the handbook for my auto because thats where I originally found the information ten years ago....

[cm2581]

cncfabs is correct, as is daved....heres the DoT link if the dealer needs any more convincing.....

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/towingwithvehiclesfrequently4577

and I'm telling you Nissan are wrong. I wish I still had the handbook for my auto because thats where I originally found the information ten years ago....

I have the original handbook and I can't find it anywhere!!! Will scrutinise more closely tonight!

[briggie]

just done a bit of searching .... it seems nissan japan are very customer focused , unlike nissan europe and nissan uk .

worth an e mail ?

http://www.nissan.co.jp

[Deleted account DD]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/towingwithvehiclesfrequently4577




well found :thumb2

theyre the bosses

ive got as far as con & use 1986 which is telling me al about vin plates, think I'll stop now :doh

[(RIP) PLANK]

the towing wieight is the train weight minus the gross weight both are on your plate;

4280 - 2580 = 1700 k

he pointed these figures out to you, but it seems he didn't understand them!

so take it back!

i said that on page one! :augie

[lacroupade]

i said that on page one! :augie

ah but did you have the courage of your convictions?:augie

[(RIP) PLANK]

ah but did you have the courage of your convictions?:augie

as i said there have been test cases (brought before a court) that have challeneged this and won!

In the case of this thread i beleive it starts and ends with this informatin, and the dealers inability to understand the data on the plate, he is after all the perosn who is supposed to understand and sod the vehicle on the basis of his ignorance.

[rustic]

I guess it's all on the Plate.

My 2.7 TD LWB 1995 manual Maverick states the following:-

2580 kg This will be the Gross vehicle weight. (Axle 1 + Axle 2)

5360 kg This is Gross train weight. (Laden car + laden Trailer)

1 1160 kg Maximum permitted axle load of Mav on Front axle

2 1140 kg Maximum permitted axle load of Mav on Rear axle


If you subtract the Gross Vehicle weight from the Gross train weight, you will get the maximum towing weight.


5360 kg - 2580 kg = 2780 kg
My maximum gross weight for my trailer is 2500 kg so my set up is totally legal. :thumbs

Do the maths on your rating plate and see what the result is.

I have read somewhere that the law allow a percentage over load before they actually prosecute, but insurance companies may not if they don't want to pay out.
As long as there is a loop hole they won't pay out. :eek: :doh

[Deleted account DD]

as i said there have been test cases (brought before a court) that have challeneged this and won!




go on....................


youve got my interest there :thumb2

[cm2581]

as i said there have been test cases (brought before a court) that have challeneged this and won!

In the case of this thread i beleive it starts and ends with this informatin, and the dealers inability to understand the data on the plate, he is after all the perosn who is supposed to understand and sod the vehicle on the basis of his ignorance.

Can you come with me to the dealership?!! :rolleyes:

[briggie]

http://www.nissanpress.co.uk/press_site/press_packs/archive/terrano/2003/Terrano-engine-data-dimensions_2003.pdf

[lacroupade]

Can you come with me to the dealership?!! :rolleyes:

he doesn't need to.....the DoT site expresses the law as it currently stands.:thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

I guess it's all on the Plate.

My 2.7 TD LWB 1995 manual Maverick states the following:-

2580 kg This will be the Gross vehicle weight. (Axle 1 + Axle 2)

5360 kg This is Gross train weight. (Laden car + laden Trailer)

1 1160 kg Maximum permitted axle load of Mav on Front axle

2 1140 kg Maximum permitted axle load of Mav on Rear axle


If you subtract the Gross Vehicle weight from the Gross train weight, you will get the maximum towing weight.


5360 kg - 2580 kg = 2780 kg
My maximum gross weight for my trailer is 2500 kg so my set up is totally legal. :thumbs




Looks like the right conclusion but theres no way 1160 + 1140 = 2580 :augie:augie

[lacroupade]

http://www.nissanpress.co.uk/press_site/press_packs/archive/terrano/2003/Terrano-engine-data-dimensions_2003.pdf

actually while that link doesn't cover the 2.7 auto it DOES confirm that internet data for the 3.0 ltr is wrong and that, like the 2.7, the 3.0 ltr auto version has a LOWER towing weight.:thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

This is getting surreal and possibly for some a bit disappointing :(

[lacroupade]

Looks like the right conclusion but theres no way 1160 + 1140 = 2580 :augie:augie

Now you ARE confusing me...what has permitted axle weight got to do with towing weight, other than the extent to which it is influenced by the trailers noseweight?:confused:

[briggie]

if you look under " dimensions " on the following link , it gives some interesting figures :naughty

http://www.lestacarcentre.co.uk/used-cars/nissan-terrano-2-7-tdi-se-touring-5dr-auto-leicester-201050375342294

[Deleted account DD]

Now you ARE confusing me...what has permitted axle weight got to do with towing weight, other than the extent to which it is influenced by the trailers noseweight?:confused:

The combined axle weights are usually greater than the gvw not less because thats what theyve got to support :thumb2

[lacroupade]

The combined axle weights are usually greater than the gvw not less because thats what theyve got to support :thumb2

ah with you, I misread your intentions there...damn!

[rustic]

http://www.nissanpress.co.uk/press_site/press_packs/archive/terrano/2003/Terrano-engine-data-dimensions_2003.pdf

This states gross trailer weight for automatic is 2000kg
Maximum load on hitch is 120 kg.

What happens to the weight on the rear axle if 120 kg is placed on the hitch, since this is behind the axle, it may increase rear axle load by say 150 kg, and reduce front axle by 30kg. ( leverage effect).

The trailer axle weight(s) will now be 2000kg - 120 kg. = 1880 kg

So if only axle loadings are looked at, there could be an overloading of the rear axle on the vehicle. Do any of us consider this when towing? :nenau

Or is this a reason the law allows a percentage overload before prosecution.

Would the law disconnect the trailer to weigh it or use axle loadings?

If ever you are weighed on a Public weighbridge it must be trade approved and in calibration, check their certificate at the weighbridge.
If not approved they cannot use the weights in court. :thumbs

[rustic]

I guess it's all on the Plate.

My 2.7 TD LWB 1995 manual Maverick states the following:-

2580 kg This will be the Gross vehicle weight. (Axle 1 + Axle 2)

5360 kg This is Gross train weight. (Laden car + laden Trailer)

1 1160 kg Maximum permitted axle load of Mav on Front axle

2 1140 kg Maximum permitted axle load of Mav on Rear axle


If you subtract the Gross Vehicle weight from the Gross train weight, you will get the maximum towing weight.


5360 kg - 2580 kg = 2780 kg
My maximum gross weight for my trailer is 2500 kg so my set up is totally legal. :thumbs

Do the maths on your rating plate and see what the result is.

I have read somewhere that the law allow a percentage over load before they actually prosecute, but insurance companies may not if they don't want to pay out.
As long as there is a loop hole they won't pay out. :eek: :doh

OOPS TYPO ERROR Sorry, Axle 2 should have been 1450 kg sorry for confusion.

[rustic]

Here's what it should have been oopps...

Originally Posted by rustic
I guess it's all on the Plate.

My 2.7 TD LWB 1995 manual Maverick states the following:-

2580 kg This will be the Gross vehicle weight. (Axle 1 + Axle 2)

5360 kg This is Gross train weight. (Laden car + laden Trailer)

1 1160 kg Maximum permitted axle load of Mav on Front axle

2 1450 kg Maximum permitted axle load of Mav on Rear axle


If you subtract the Gross Vehicle weight from the Gross train weight, you will get the maximum towing weight.


5360 kg - 2580 kg = 2780 kg
My maximum gross weight for my trailer is 2500 kg so my set up is totally legal.

Do the maths on your rating plate and see what the result is.

I have read somewhere that the law allow a percentage over load before they actually prosecute, but insurance companies may not if they don't want to pay out.
As long as there is a loop hole they won't pay out.

[felixthelogchopper]

With respect, the Esso case was about a duff prediction of future sales volume, as opposed to a statement that a particular criteria would meet a parties specified requirement. Neither was this a 'mutual mistake' IMHO although I see where you are coming from....this is a clear cut case of misrepresentation by the seller (the alleged expert) in respect of a condition specified by the buyer.

And don't rely too heavily on Trading Standards in this case....they will probably advise both parties of what the law says in this situation, but if push came to shove it would still reuire legal action by the buyer to remedy the position.:thumb2

With respect, you miss my point re Esso. My point was that it is distinguished this situation from Bisset v Wilkinson, ie that which could be argued to be an opinion rather than a relied upon fact, per Ormrod LJ. Possibly I should have cited Smith v Land and House Property Corporation instead but I tend to give the most recent precedent where possible.As for 'mutual mistake', surely unless you are claiming the salesman deliberately mislead rather than was just shamefully ill-informed then misrepresentation, which leaves the contract voidable, is not strictly true.Given the confusion from various sources with regard to the towing capabilities of the vehicle, mutual mistake would leave the contract automatically void.

[rustic]

Just to add even more confusion, if you have the more recent driver's licence and not pased the additional test, you are not allowed to tow a Gross train weight of more than..... GUESS ! 3500kg Please confirm value..:nenau

[cm2581]

Rustic - my vehicle is the older 2.7 TDi SE+ 5d Auto - not the 3.0 stated here.

And I have passed my B+E test - I've even had compliments on my reversing skills from BOYS!!!!! :p

[felixthelogchopper]

Rustic - my vehicle is the older 2.7 TDi SE+ 5d Auto - not the 3.0 stated here.

And I have passed my B+E test - I've even had compliments on my reversing skills from BOYS!!!!! :p

:lol:lol:lol

[(RIP) PLANK]

With respect, you miss my point re Esso. My point was that it is distinguished this situation from Bisset v Wilkinson, ie that which could be argued to be an opinion rather than a relied upon fact, per Ormrod LJ. Possibly I should have cited Smith v Land and House Property Corporation instead but I tend to give the most recent precedent where possible.As for 'mutual mistake', surely unless you are claiming the salesman deliberately mislead rather than was just shamefully ill-informed then misrepresentation, which leaves the contract voidable, is not strictly true.Given the confusion from various sources with regard to the towing capabilities of the vehicle, mutual mistake would leave the contract automatically void.

shut up clever clogs and go and chop some trees :augie :lol

[(RIP) PLANK]

Rustic - my vehicle is the older 2.7 TDi SE+ 5d Auto - not the 3.0 stated here.

And I have passed my B+E test - I've even had compliments on my reversing skills from BOYS!!!!! :p

however this works out, please come back and be a full time member we have enjoyed your thread and your company! :thumbs

[Deleted account DD]

OOPS TYPO ERROR Sorry, Axle 2 should have been 1450 kg sorry for confusion.


guessed it was a typo I just didnt know what it should be :thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

With respect, you miss my point re Esso. My point was that it is distinguished this situation from Bisset v Wilkinson, ie that which could be argued to be an opinion rather than a relied upon fact, per Ormrod LJ. Possibly I should have cited Smith v Land and House Property Corporation instead but I tend to give the most recent precedent where possible.As for 'mutual mistake', surely unless you are claiming the salesman deliberately mislead rather than was just shamefully ill-informed then misrepresentation, which leaves the contract voidable, is not strictly true.Given the confusion from various sources with regard to the towing capabilities of the vehicle, mutual mistake would leave the contract automatically void.

so irrespective of stated cases it was a **** up :naughty and of course precedents are set as required ;)

[lacroupade]

With respect, you miss my point re Esso. My point was that it is distinguished this situation from Bisset v Wilkinson, ie that which could be argued to be an opinion rather than a relied upon fact, per Ormrod LJ. Possibly I should have cited Smith v Land and House Property Corporation instead but I tend to give the most recent precedent where possible.As for 'mutual mistake', surely unless you are claiming the salesman deliberately mislead rather than was just shamefully ill-informed then misrepresentation, which leaves the contract voidable, is not strictly true.Given the confusion from various sources with regard to the towing capabilities of the vehicle, mutual mistake would leave the contract automatically void.

Well firstly the Esso case has no bearing, since it clearly relates to an unsubstantiated prediction, not a factual misrepresentation. Secondly the moor dealer is deemed to be an 'expert' and in this case has clearly not checked his facts properly, even though he only needed to understand a VIN plate properly to know that he was talking bollox. That is not a 'mistake', its professional incompetence at best?

And I'm totally unclear how you think the OP made a 'mistake'? He stated a requirement and the seller confirmed, wrongly, that the requirement was met....last time I looked that was a reasonable definition of being misled....? Regardless of whether the salesman was ill-informed, the reality is he is the professional and is deemed knowledgeable, even if he isn't, otherwise every car dealer would escape from every contract dispute on the grounds that the salesman couldn't be expected to know all the answers. I think not. The simple act is they have the means (in this case a simple 30-second analysis of the VIN plate) to know that they gave the OP incorrect information.

Having qualified in law in one life, and spent quite a few years working with the motor trade in another, I have seen this tested first hand numerous times, always in the buyers favour when is been a material issue.

But lets leave it there before I fall asleep......:D:lol

[Deleted account DD]

wondering whether to answer this one...................

I'd say petrol sales and sheep grazing would be kicked out by a competant solicitor. Ones a prediction and ones an unfounded opinion.

The op was looking for a statment of fact ie it will tow X, no opinion , no hearsay and he could reasonably, as stated above , have expected the salesmanas an informed expert to have located or informed him of the difficulty in obtaining that information.

He did not, the judgement of any reasonable person would have to be that the vehicle itself, not a generic data sheet would yield that information and the vin plate is the source. Or at very least an option worth pursuing.

The salesman by omission, error or stupidity misled and sold a product not fit for the purpose it was intended. Thats giving him the benefit of the doubt with no aspersions cast upon his honesty.

The closest example is the landlord one, even though the effective conclusion was that the contract was void, again it was a decision based primarily upon opinion :nenau

There will be many more modern cases . One in particular would be mrs & dave v's catterick caravans 2008 where the very points regarding fact v's opinon above were argued and won ;)

[felixthelogchopper]

There will be many more modern cases . One in particular would be mrs & dave v's catterick caravans 2008 where the very points regarding fact v's opinon above were argued and won ;)

Can't seem to find that one on LexisNexis :naughty:lol:lol

[lacroupade]

Can't seem to find that one on LexisNexis :naughty:lol:lol

ooh its a classic trust me! :lol

[briggie]

anyway . ... back on track lol .......

if you look under " dimensions " on the following link , it gives some interesting figures

http://www.lestacarcentre.co.uk/used...01050375342294

[briggie]

Rustic - my vehicle is the older 2.7 TDi SE+ 5d Auto - not the 3.0 stated here.

And I have passed my B+E test - I've even had compliments on my reversing skills from BOYS!!!!! :p

no boys on here , only men :augie ( oh and ladies ) .... trouble is its hard to tell the difference sometimes :augie:lol:lol

[cm2581]

Oi Oi Oi You LOT!!!!! Stop referring to me as 'he'!! I'm a girlie!! Not a pink fluffy one but definitely a girlie!!! :kissy If 30 is classed as a girlie anyways!!:lol

And thanks so much everyone for your help. I spoke again to VOSA and DVLA and regardless of what anyone or any bit of paper or internet entry says, the plate goes. Law. Fact. If the plate is incorrect (?!) then an application can be made to the local DVLA office to have it changed. And quoting the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as advised by Consumer Direct) and let then know I am holding them in breach of contract as the goods are not fit for the purpose made known at the time of sale and I give them 7 days to rectify the situation.

And hopefully, that will be that! And I will return for advice on where to buy a manual! Idiots guide will be required cos I don't think I want to buy from a dealer again!!! I will go with my folding notes and haggle and barter my way round bloody england (I'm in Edinburgh!) if necessary to get one! Oh maybe not barter - who knows what a private seller might be after!!! I will take scary looking daddy with me me thinks!:)

[Deleted account DD]

Good luck :thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

anyway . ... back on track lol .......

if you look under " dimensions " on the following link , it gives some interesting figures

http://www.lestacarcentre.co.uk/used...01050375342294

on track for what ?


message i get on that link is "Page not found (HTTP 404)." :confused::confused:

[briggie]

http://www.lestacarcentre.co.uk/used-cars/nissan-terrano-2-7-tdi-se-touring-5dr-auto-leicester-201050375342294

[briggie]

http://www.lestacarcentre.co.uk/used-cars/nissan-terrano-2-7-tdi-se-touring-5dr-auto-leicester-201050375342294

take a look under dimensions :naughty

[Deleted account DD]

http://www.lestacarcentre.co.uk/used-cars/nissan-terrano-2-7-tdi-se-touring-5dr-auto-leicester-201050375342294


:thumb2 works.

Not sure what youre saying :confused: He's made a good effort plus a disclaimer to describe it :nenau

[briggie]

:thumb2 works.

Not sure what youre saying :confused: He's made a good effort plus a disclaimer to describe it :nenau

it says 1700 kg max towing weight ( unbraked ) ... id love to know where got his info from .... looks about right too if you think of 2000kg for the 3 litre

[lacroupade]

it says 1700 kg max towing weight ( unbraked ) ... id love to know where got his info from .... looks about right too if you think of 2000kg for the 3 litre

Ummmm....the VIN plate mayhaps? Have you been asleep this entire thread?LOL:thumb2

[briggie]

Ummmm....the VIN plate mayhaps? Have you been asleep this entire thread?LOL:thumb2

is it christmas yet :doh:lol:lol

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

well after 8 odd pages, think what ever the maths is the groos train is fact.

and the box and horses are going to exceed that combined with the unladen
or kerb weight i found for the auto of 1900 odd kg.

go get 'em.

i still cant believe that nissan down rated the gross train, to reduce the
max trailer, suppose atleast didnt down rate vechicle's gross...

nor can i believe that they built the auto with chocolate slush box when
in therory an auto is better for towing, though clearly not at max loads...

seems would be rough if needed auto on grounds of disability then found
couldnt use it for a purpose/living, forgivable on a fiesta but on what is
classed a utility/truck by many, down right embarrassing, wonder what
part bin nissan got it out of.

sure the autos in green ovals have same tow weights, and defender
upwards thats 3500 but hey after all this dont quote me.

[macabethiel]

In my experience automatics are brilliant for towing and they often have limitations on them due to the increased load on the ATF. (Auto Transmission Fluid)

Back in the 1970,s the fix was to add an extra oil cooler to the transmission unit with a Kenlow type fan on it. With modern Synthetic ATF I would have thought this was a reasonable proposition and would not break the bank costwise.

If most of the time you are not towing anything this might be an option worth exploring.

[Deleted account DD]

sure the autos in green ovals have same tow weights, and defender
upwards thats 3500 but hey after all this dont quote me.


youre spot on as far as I am aware :thumb2 dont know them model by model but theres generally little or no difference on a lot of the bigger beefier 4x4s manual vs auto box. Mine is auto and has a properly matched auto box that still clocks in for a 3 1/2 tonne tow.

I still reckon the auto box on the Terrano was a Nisan faux pas when they thought they could market it to the urban posers who couldnt spell "tow rating" rather than someone who was going to work the truck hard :thumbs

[Deleted account DD]

In my experience automatics are brilliant for towing and they often have limitations on them due to the increased load on the ATF. (Auto Transmission Fluid)

Back in the 1970,s the fix was to add an extra oil cooler to the transmission unit with a Kenlow type fan on it. With modern Synthetic ATF I would have thought this was a reasonable proposition and would not break the bank costwise.

If most of the time you are not towing anything this might be an option worth exploring.


Yes I remember the extra oil coolers.We had Granadas & Consuls in the 70's.They needed them.

When i got my auto I made enquiries along those lines and the answer was theyre common place as standard now and no need to consider anything extra unless youre heading out into the desert :thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

it says 1700 kg max towing weight ( unbraked ) ... id love to know where got his info from .... looks about right too if you think of 2000kg for the 3 litre

ahhh with you ;)


Ummmm....the VIN plate mayhaps? Have you been asleep this entire thread?LOL:thumb2


:augie:lol:lol:lol

[lacroupade]

ah apologies Briggie, missed the 'unbraked' quote...yes, one for W-ankers Corner I think!:)

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

whats this unbraked 1700, surely braked 1700, unbraked 750 is legal max.

even on c1 trucks, mind dont know how heavy those hand controlled
rollers are, rollers must be full of helium? whilst being towed on their
little trailers, no brakes, rarely a secondary coupling, how the hell they
reverse 'em when so much narrower than the truck i'll never know.

[(RIP) PLANK]

whats this unbraked 1700, surely braked 1700, unbraked 750 is legal max.

even on c1 trucks, mind dont know how heavy those hand controlled
rollers are, rollers must be full of helium? whilst being towed on their
little trailers, no brakes, rarely a secondary coupling, how the hell they
reverse 'em when so much narrower than the truck i'll never know.

i've often wondered that too!

I checked my data plate today, manual, definately 2800k!

[briggie]

ah apologies Briggie, missed the 'unbraked' quote...yes, one for W-ankers Corner I think!:)

my apology actually , the 1700 says braked , i missread it :doh

[MudLifeCrisis]

. And quoting the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as advised by Consumer Direct) and let then know I am holding them in breach of contract as the goods are not fit for the purpose made known at the time of sale

I said that :O)

Amazing what you pick up after 12 years selling cars


Good luck to you

[lacroupade]

it says 1700 kg max towing weight ( unbraked ) ... id love to know where got his info from .... looks about right too if you think of 2000kg for the 3 litre

:doh:doh I think we are both suffering from visual dyslexia:(

[Deleted account DD]

:doh:doh I think we are both suffering from visual dyslexia:(


Some one else said it was an age thing :augie:augie

[lacroupade]

Some one else said it was an age thing :augie:augie

...or too much monkey spanking LMAO!:p

[briggie]

...or too much monkey spanking LMAO!:p

its probably lack of alcohol , im full of the sniffles :lol

[(RIP) PLANK]

to get this thread slightly back on track :augie

I have checked the wights on my 2.7 tdi manual, and it definately has a towing weight of 2800 kilos, so if you can swap your auto for a manual, you will be fine with your horses!

[cm2581]

YAWN!!! Garage being stubborn. We'll see!! :-)

[lacroupade]

YAWN!!! Garage being stubborn. We'll see!! :-)

have they accepted what the VIN plate says?

[briggie]

YAWN!!! Garage being stubborn. We'll see!! :-)

big scary dad time ?

[(RIP) PLANK]

just remember we are Nissan owners not Hells Angels! we only talk a good fight :augie

[cm2581]

No they aren't interested in the VIN plate!! Nissan Customer Services told them no diff between auto and manual therefore there is no problem! When I phoned Nissan again and pushed the matter, they admitted they had NO printed data on the automatic so all they could really say for certain was that the manual tows 2.8 tonnes. Well yeah, we all know that!!!

[Deleted account DD]

No they aren't interested in the VIN plate!! Nissan Customer Services told them no diff between auto and manual therefore there is no problem! When I phoned Nissan again and pushed the matter, they admitted they had NO printed data on the automatic so all they could really say for certain was that the manual tows 2.8 tonnes. Well yeah, we all know that!!!


Make sure you record time, names and details of all conversations. Your contemporaneous notes are perfectly acceptable (like the ones youve already been keeping) :thumb2

You can then display a pattern of incompetency and inconsistency in providing clear information to back up the assertion that the dealer/salesman doesnt know what the hell they are on about.

You relied on them and they should have known to refer to the vin, no expectation of you to do so.

That will hopefully show that on balance of probability the dealer could not give you definitive advice and thefore missold the vehicle on speculation as youre stating. Let trading standards add the statutory bits , thats their expertise.

Chuck in the local press on the "they wont help me", write to watchdog and go for it :thumb2

[(RIP) PLANK]

how is this all going, does anyone know?

[stalkdeer]

Very interesting reading all through this thread.
I've just joined you all on this forum.:thumb2
I have just bought my second Patrol (3.0) for towing horses.
I used www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk to check out the weights. You can also enter the trailer you are using on there and it tells what are suitable vehicles for towing it.
I used to have a 2.8 Patrol years ago to tow an Ifor, but when I entered the trailer I am looking at buying the only Patrol that will tow it is the 3.0 manual. This just saved me in time from buying another 2.8 and being underpowered legally.
I was advised many years ago never to buy an auto for towing. Its only since Christmas I'm finding out why.
Good luck in getting this annoying problem sorted.

[rustic]

Welcome to the best 4x4 site on the web, I am pleased that you are finding the site useful.
There is always time for a bit of light hearted banter , jokes etc as well as more serious issues like safety, vehicle maintenence, and off road meetings etc.

Combined we probably know more about these vehicles than the main dealers. :thumb2

Best regards, Rustic

[Deleted account DD]

V
I was advised many years ago never to buy an auto for towing. Its only since Christmas I'm finding out why.


Hi, Id be very interested in why thats the case? Ive towed for years and the easiest tow years ago was with an auto transmission tractor, more recently my current car which has a rather robust auto box :D

Surely like a manaul it depends on the box fitted? I drove a Saab sports estate quite a lot a couple of years back, it was a lovely car but the auto box was a bit twitchy.

[(RIP) PLANK]

Very interesting reading all through this thread.
I've just joined you all on this forum.:thumb2
I have just bought my second Patrol (3.0) for towing horses.
I used www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk to check out the weights. You can also enter the trailer you are using on there and it tells what are suitable vehicles for towing it.
I used to have a 2.8 Patrol years ago to tow an Ifor, but when I entered the trailer I am looking at buying the only Patrol that will tow it is the 3.0 manual. This just saved me in time from buying another 2.8 and being underpowered legally.
I was advised many years ago never to buy an auto for towing. Its only since Christmas I'm finding out why.
Good luck in getting this annoying problem sorted.

Just looked at the link, interesting site. I am regularly towing an old Ifor Williams trailer with a couple of heavy ponies or a load of sheep, or goats. Nissan's are brilliant for the job :thumb2