4WD problemette...

[lacroupade]

....right, no barrack room mechanics please, need someone who knows their way around the diff/front drive :lol

When I engage 4WD on my fixed-hub Mk IV I get a kind of low frequency whining and mild vibration, and the truck seems to want to wander slightly off to the right.

There are no symptoms in 2WD and apart from the noise, 4WD does function normally otherwise.

At the moment I suspect the CV joint - wheel bearing would be noisy in 2WD and it isn't - but is there anything else in the drive chain up front that might be the cause?

And if it is CV, how costly are the bits does anyone know?

Cheers m'dears....:thumb2

[kbekl]

could be half shaft bearing ??

outer cv joint from milners is £70

[lacroupade]

could be half shaft bearing ??

outer cv joint from milners is £70

oh well that could be worse I spose, plus an hour or two of labour.....

not sure about the half shaft bearing though as I'd suspect, since its permanently rotating, it should be noisy all the time....while the CV joint isn't under any real strain until its got drive through it is it?

where are all the spanner w*nkers when you need 'em?!:lol

[kbekl]

oh well that could be worse I spose, plus an hour or two of labour.....

not sure about the half shaft bearing though as I'd suspect, since its permanently rotating, it should be noisy all the time....while the CV joint isn't under any real strain until its got drive through it is it?

where are all the spanner w*nkers when you need 'em?!:lol

i thought the half shaft bearing only spins in 4wd :nenau

[makeitfit]

where are all the spanner w*nkers when you need 'em?!:lol
Too new for me mate, mine still has levers to heave and a clutch :augie
My advise in this area is to turn up the sounds a bit more:naughty

[lacroupade]

Too new for me mate, mine still has levers to heave and a clutch :augie
My advise in this area is to turn up the sounds a bit more:naughty

No this is on the manual truck, not the automatic.....I'm just not clear what bit is freewheeling from what with fixed hubs, my assumption has always been that 4WD selection therefore takes place in the diff, but I have been wrong once before (I think...)

[tezzer]

could be the transfer box, as you have fixed hubs the diff and propsharft will be turning, you get 4 wheel drive by transfer box, :augie:thumb2

[kbekl]

could be the prop where it enters the diff ??

so if it's fixed hubs then it aint cv joint either as that will be in use all the time as well

it could be the bearings with the extra strain on it when in 4wd

[lacroupade]

could be the prop where it enters the diff ??

so if it's fixed hubs then it aint cv joint either as that will be in use all the time as well

it could be the bearings with the extra strain on it when in 4wd

good points Karl, but the noise defo seems to emanate from the front left wheel which would tends to discount prop shaft, but the CV joint remains a favourite since its just freewheeling under no load in 2WD, its only in 4WD it takes the strain....i'd also expect a wheel bearing to be noisy all the time, especially having driven 4000 miles in the last three weeks with no change in 2WD noise levels....

Keep 'em coming! :thumb2

[solarman216]

I have auto hubs, and from my reading of posts relating to manual hubs if you want 4 wheel drive you not only need to shift the lever in the cab but get out and turn each hub on, can someone confirm, Rick

[kbekl]

isnt the diff off set to the left (or is it right)so that it would sound like it is coming from the left or could be echoing across

or you have better hearing in your left ear lol

[kbekl]

I have auto hubs, and from my reading of posts relating to manual hubs if you want 4 wheel drive you not only need to shift the lever in the cab but get out and turn each hub on, can someone confirm, Rick

yes you have to get out and manually turn it on:thumb2

[geoffdown]

I have auto hubs, and from my reading of posts relating to manual hubs if you want 4 wheel drive you not only need to shift the lever in the cab but get out and turn each hub on, can someone confirm, Rick yes you do for manual but he has fixed hubs:thumb2

[solarman216]

good points Karl, but the noise defo seems to emanate from the front left wheel which would tends to discount prop shaft, but the CV joint remains a favourite since its just freewheeling under no load in 2WD, its only in 4WD it takes the strain....i'd also expect a wheel bearing to be noisy all the time, especially having driven 4000 miles in the last three weeks with no change in 2WD noise levels....

Keep 'em coming! :thumb2

AS long as you are turning the hubs off then CV joint and shaft are not turning, unless you select 4 wheel drive with the lever but with the hubs not "on" there will not be any drive to the front, although the prop shaft, diff, and drive shafts including the CV's will be turning, assuming the lever is in 2 wheel then it is all dead, unless on a cold morning the oil is thick enough to drag the shafts into turning, so if you have a noise from NSF in 2 wheel then wheel bearing, or brake related noise, only other point is the locking hub, if there is a loose/fractured/broken part inside that means it is not fully disengageing, so time to put the hub apart I think, Rick

[makeitfit]

I think the Luvgluv has one of those newer trucks with locked hubs and selected 4wd from the transfer box. So manuals to engage or autos to fiddle with. I think:augie

[geoffdown]

I think the Luvgluv has one of those newer trucks with locked hubs and selected 4wd from the transfer box. So manuals to engage or autos to fiddle with. I think:augie
clue is in the posting :D:doh

[makeitfit]

clue is in the posting :D:doh

That's what I said :thumbs just following advice of not reading the start of any thread:lol

[Hilltop]

i thought the half shaft bearing only spins in 4wd :nenau

But it's a fixed hub Mk IV so all the shafts will turn in 2 or 4 wheel drive.



Bob







.

[extreme-4x4]

paul have you actually checked the oil in the front diff ?

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

spanner newark (dislexia rules ko !)here sorry late.

fixed hub so everything spins all way to dog clutch n transfer box.

including front prop, after all front diff doesnt have owt selectable.

tyre pressures, could lead to slight wind up, and whine.

[MontysMaverick]

Following on from what others have said, Id throw in camber and caster maybe needs correction, with all this crap weather about its easy to throw it out a little with all these ruts around and drifts etc, worth a punt to rule it out and put the old mind at ease.. can always be checked when the tyres are checked good luck

[rayf3262]

PITA in this weather but I would be inclined to rotate the wheels around the truck and see if that has any affect.

[lacroupade]

paul have you actually checked the oil in the front diff ?

TBH I haven't, but it started doing it all at once and I haven't got any leaks...but soon as the temperature here gets back above freezing point :)

spanner newark (dislexia rules ko !)here sorry late.

fixed hub so everything spins all way to dog clutch n transfer box.

including front prop, after all front diff doesnt have owt selectable.

tyre pressures, could lead to slight wind up, and whine.

See this is the bit I can't get my head around; when you've got fixed hubs, where exactly are you engaging/disengaging 4WD?? I'm always pretty tight on maintaining correct tyre pressures so can't see it would be a problem.

PITA in this weather but I would be inclined to rotate the wheels around the truck and see if that has any affect.

I'm about to stick my AT2s back on so will see if that changes anything...

BUT, vis-a-vis a point Karl made upstairs, the diff is offset to the nearside isn't it? So if there was a problem with that it would sound like a nearside wheel/drive problem?

Anyone know how complex that box of tricks is and if its economically refurbishable? Just want to try and have a list of things for the garage to check - its hard work these days finding someone competent with 4WD who can quickly diagnose issues like this....

Thanks for your input ladies. Much appreciated...:thumb2

[makeitfit]

I've got a front diff here if you want a complete lump, a decent bottle of port secures it:sly

[lacroupade]

I've got a front diff here if you want a complete lump, a decent bottle of port secures it:sly

oh but that sounds like hard work Pete, and its cold :(

But I'll try and get a diagnosis first then maybe break out the 20 year-old mmmmmmm...in fact forget it, I'll just drink the port and buy a Landie LOL

[briggie]

have a bottle of dalwhinnie 15 yr old single malt ive been given , cant wait till christmass ...... oh stuff it lol

[solarman216]

I bough to superior knowledge, Rick

[lacroupade]

I bough to superior knowledge, Rick

different not superior.....LOL:thumbs

But just to clarify, I've defo got full 4WD, its just the noise I can't resolve, but will drop it into the local greasemonkeys and let them have a little fiddle...damn!

[makeitfit]

But I'll try and get a diagnosis first then maybe break out the 20 year-old mmmmmmm...in fact forget it, I'll just drink the port and buy a Landie LOL
Arrgh, shocking plan.............drink the port:thumbs
Buy a landie :eek:

[lacroupade]

Arrgh, shocking plan.............drink the port:thumbs
Buy a landie :eek:

you can't beat a nice drop of really old port...someone gave the wife an F&M hamper last year with a bottle of 20 year old in it.....I can't tell you how beautifully that sweet stuff slipped down my throat....I think I know how a woman feels now :eek:

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

on a a part time 4x4 same place we all do when you throw the lever into 4hi.

locks the rear output shaft to the front one, even on auto hubs this is the
point of no return, split second later the front prop via the diff and the half
shafts locks the front wheels via the auto hubs. once these locked all front
end spins like your fixed hub front end, providing you dont reverse in 2 hi
auto hubb'ed front ends will continue to be spinning waiting for that old dog
clutch to kick in.

the transfer lever combines 2 separate functions of engaging 4wd and
high to low. on some boxes its possible to split the functions, via twin lever
conversion. handy if you wanted to shunt heavy on hard surface, though
care would be needed due to torque doubling effect of low box. the same
effect can be unofficially enjoyed with manual hubs as the 4wd spin all
way down to the unlocked hubs but the front wheels would get the drive.

for more fun could fit manual hubs to rear axle and simulate front wheel
drive or save the rear prop on a suspended tow, like an enhanced version
of truck being in neutral in transfer box....

[lacroupade]

Aaaah - Thank you Grasshopper.:bow

[tezzer]

oh but that sounds like hard work Pete, and its cold :(

But I'll try and get a diagnosis first then maybe break out the 20 year-old mmmmmmm...in fact forget it, I'll just drink the port and buy a Landie LOL

2 bottles paul, and pete will supply and fit it for you, might take awhile though, he will probably be pi**ed. :lol:thumbs

[solarman216]

on a a part time 4x4 same place we a providing you dont reverse in 2 hi
..


You can reverse in 2 hi and 4 wheel drive will not disengage, it will only disengage once you stop driving the shafts from the box, Rick

[kbekl]

You can reverse in 2 hi and 4 wheel drive will not disengage, it will only disengage once you stop driving the shafts from the box, Rick

if you reverse in 4wd with hubs locked it will unlock and then relock, and upon going forwards it will unlock and again relock as the locking hubs are directionally locked

[rustic]

....right, no barrack room mechanics please, need someone who knows their way around the diff/front drive :lol

When I engage 4WD on my fixed-hub Mk IV I get a kind of low frequency whining and mild vibration, and the truck seems to want to wander slightly off to the right.

There are no symptoms in 2WD and apart from the noise, 4WD does function normally otherwise.

At the moment I suspect the CV joint - wheel bearing would be noisy in 2WD and it isn't - but is there anything else in the drive chain up front that might be the cause?

And if it is CV, how costly are the bits does anyone know?

Cheers m'dears....:thumb2

I've read all the threads, but I assume you are on a slippy surface when you do this, as you will get wind up if all 4 tyres are not exactly the same, pressure, tread depth, and make etc.

Yesterday I was out in the mav, auto hubs engaged, slipping in and out of 4 wheel drive, and on a straight section of ice covered road, I tried the brakes, and the Mav stopped quite easily without any skidding.

So maybe the slippy stuff isn't as slippy as you first thought, thus the wind up.
A few winters ago I was in Minesota and the temperature was -20C and the ice under foot was not slippy, I was wearing smooth soles at the time and the ice was as hard as concrete, and as grippy, I was very surprised.

If you took a glass of water throw the water into the air, it hit the ground as ice crystals. At -30C you can do the same with red wine. (What a waste)
Never tried it with Malt whisky, unless it was inside me first....:lol:lol

[lacroupade]

I've read all the threads, but I assume you are on a slippy surface when you do this, as you will get wind up if all 4 tyres are not exactly the same, pressure, tread depth, and make etc.

Yesterday I was out in the mav, auto hubs engaged, slipping in and out of 4 wheel drive, and on a straight section of ice covered road, I tried the brakes, and the Mav stopped quite easily without any skidding.

So maybe the slippy stuff isn't as slippy as you first thought, thus the wind up.
A few winters ago I was in Minesota and the temperature was -20C and the ice under foot was not slippy, I was wearing smooth soles at the time and the ice was as hard as concrete, and as grippy, I was very surprised.

If you took a glass of water throw the water into the air, it hit the ground as ice crystals. At -30C you can do the same with red wine. (What a waste)
Never tried it with Malt whisky, unless it was inside me first....:lol:lol

Damned thing has been doing it everywhere,from wet roads, through a foot of snow on the autoroute to sheet ice on the way up to my house in wales, with no variation :(

[rustic]

Damned thing has been doing it everywhere,from wet roads, through a foot of snow on the autoroute to sheet ice on the way up to my house in wales, with no variation :(

Well I guess all your front running gear has done many more miles than mine, so it could be CV's or bearings as the bearings will be under more strain while being driven.
Front prop shaft UJ's spring to mind and there is also the sliding coupling as there are 3 grease nipples on the front prop shaft.
If you greased the 3 grease nipples, you may feel a difference, but for a very short time as the grease is squeezed out.
There is more wear somewhere than there used to be, might even be the rear drive train as well.
There are just too many items that when worn will cause this problem, having looked at the other threads. :nenau

[lacroupade]

Well I guess all your front running gear has done many more miles than mine, so it could be CV's or bearings as the bearings will be under more strain while being driven.
Front prop shaft UJ's spring to mind and there is also the sliding coupling as there are 3 grease nipples on the front prop shaft.
If you greased the 3 grease nipples, you may feel a difference, but for a very short time as the grease is squeezed out.
There is more wear somewhere than there used to be, might even be the rear drive train as well.
There are just too many items that when worn will cause this problem, having looked at the other threads. :nenau

thats what i'm afraid of, hence the pre-garage diagnostic. but less than 100k miles on this lady so just not sure.

I'll let you know how she gets on in the garage :(

[rayf3262]

If your 02 front prop is anything like my 02 front prop - don't be to surprised if there are no grease nipples.
As for the sliding coupling; it's now coated in a high tech plastic that is self lubricating, it does wear though, and this can give rise to vibration of the front prop.

[lacroupade]

If your 02 front prop is anything like my 02 front prop - don't be to surprised if there are no grease nipples.
As for the sliding coupling; it's now coated in a high tech plastic that is self lubricating, it does wear though, and this can give rise to vibration of the front prop.

interesting tip, thanks. no vibration though, just this infernal low-pitched whine and "I-want-to-go-right-you-ba5tard!" from the steering....

[rayf3262]

interesting tip, thanks. no vibration though, just this infernal low-pitched whine and "I-want-to-go-right-you-ba5tard!" from the steering....
The: "I-want-to-go-right-you-ba5tard!" is easily fixed!:D

[lacroupade]

The: "I-want-to-go-right-you-ba5tard!" is easily fixed!:D

true, but not that attractive when you're trying to keep straight in a foot of snow while some Portugese w*nker in a 40-tonner is overtaking you on the other side (and yes, he was wrapped round the central reservation three miles down the road I'm pleased to report)...

[11redrex]

Hope you said obrigado

[lacroupade]

Borrox.

Garage has been great, not charging me for two hours+ spent on diagnosis but they didn't want to waste my money on labour costs.......the boss has now driven it extensively, and after me explaining to him how the T2 suffers badly from tranny windup in the dry, has eliminated the usual suspects and potentially narrowed it down to the transfer box <groan> which is gonna be another big expense to rectify FFS :doh

Just to remind people, in case there are any more suggestions, symptoms are:

1. Nothing untoward in 2WD.

2. A low frequency whining/moaning in 4WD that increases with vehicle speed......sounds like its coming from front left.

3. Noise is worse under strain but vanishes completely on very slippery surfaces.....e.g. it will be howling at 45mph on a wet road, but soon as you hit snow, silence....!

It all sounded like a bearing but its such an odd phenomenon that its really difficult to pin down......so at this point its gonna be 'run it til it breaks' (that or sell it :naughty.

Meantime though I might look at a scrapper for a late tfr box but if anyone has any other alternate diagnosis.....?? (Remember its a MkIV with fixed hubs).

Cheers

[kbekl]

that dont sound like a transferbox problem

more like a diff one all oil is new i guess

[lacroupade]

that dont sound like a transferbox problem

more like a diff one all oil is new i guess

well oddly enough I'm waiting a call back to check :augie

[kbekl]

disconect the front prop stick it in 4wd and see if you can apply some strain to the prop and see if you can recreate the sound

does it do it under 10mph or not ?

if you hit snow and it has gone this to me would mean that the tyres/wheels are causing it. have you had the off set checked or used a second set of wheels on when did it start doing it

as you would still get the noise if it was something like the transfer box as it has to work as hard or in some cases harder

have you tried it in mud ? an is it the same

[lacroupade]

disconect the front prop stick it in 4wd and see if you can apply some strain to the prop and see if you can recreate the sound needs to be doing 30mph plus.....:(

does it do it under 10mph or not ? nope

if you hit snow and it has gone this to me would mean that the tyres/wheels are causing it. have you had the off set checked or used a second set of wheels on when did it start doing it no same old tyres.....and TBH the noise is too loud for it to be just tyres I think.

as you would still get the noise if it was something like the transfer box as it has to work as hard or in some cases harder

have you tried it in mud ? No - same probs as above, only kicks in around 25-30mph and I suspect would behave same as on snow, i.e. no noise... an is it the same

see above....thanks for the suggestions, everything helps....:thumb2

[lacroupade]

ref the "goes away on snow" thing, I am assuming that the slight slippage, even in 4WD is enough to take the strain off whatever is causing it....

[kbekl]

it makes it easier for the tyres to slip and not wind up but the forses are pritty much the same from the transferbox as it will try and drive the wheels

idea have it at a rolling test garage with a pit all wheels on a roller some rollers have adjustable friction some one under it or a mic and see where the noise is comming from

it could be the caster angle which is causing it