Zippy and 4x4 response

[zippy656]

yay, on stand by...


just in case....

[rustic]

Hi Zippy, I read about the 4x4 response on the web, clearely it's voluntary, and you may get called by certain organisations.

I understand you need to get additional insurance for voluntary work, and you have to show competance in controlling the vehicle etc, and have the appropriate recovery equipment and know how to use it and know the limits of the vehicle.

Do you get fuel allowance or mileage and how many miles would you do per year say?
What happens if you are at work and help is required ?

I am aware that others on the forum do this but many may not know what is involved.

Best regards,
Rustic

[zippy656]

Hi Zippy, I read about the 4x4 response on the web, clearely it's voluntary, and you may get called by certain organisations.

yes, the organisations sign up and agree to pay milage OR fuel.
no good if your keeping people warm with a running engin but only do a few miles and use 3/4 tank of fuel ( £60 )


I understand you need to get additional insurance for voluntary work, and you have to show competance in controlling the vehicle etc, and have the appropriate recovery equipment and know how to use it and know the limits of the vehicle.

some insurance companys are OK with is as long as you tell them BEFORE the event... public liabilty insurance is covers but 4x4 resomnse..

recover equipment.. NOPE not needed its PEOPLE and EQUIPMENT we move.. recovery of cars ectis left to some one else.

Do you get fuel allowance or mileage and how many miles would you do per year say? so fat THIS year i have done 100 miles ish...


What happens if you are at work and help is required ? its all down to YOUR boss. he can let you go.. or not.. with OR without PAY, depends one nice and helpful he is.. ( im still working on mine )

I am aware that others on the forum do this but many may not know what is involved.

Best regards,
Rustic


any more question ask away... if i can answer im sure some one else will...

[Deleted account DD]

Cant knock the volunteers, they make up a significant and useful service :thumb2 theyre acknowledged in the civil contingencies act too.


However you need to bear several points in mind relating to tasks youre asked to undertake.

Im no expert but i have researched some of the points.

One most important one is the insurance, it all depends on the risk in what youre doing. Some activities such as the transport of prisoners as discussed on here earlier this year is an absolute no no for most (just have a peek in the back of a lock up van if you want to see what makes an acceptable transport unit). I have business use on my car and am on call but its a condition I dont transport either.

Another one is you. I'm not sure what checks zippy and his mates have been through but I would have thought crb checks are a minimum.

You also have the standard of their driving and convictions to put into perspective. Im not aware of any protocol to cover that. an anyone help out on that? Is there a caveat that all you do is on your own back with no cause use permit involved???

[solarman216]

Are we not getting near the aspect of like the police officers who, as they were not trained to rescue from water would not help a drowning person because of that, sorry but if I find someone in trouble and I can help with my 4x4 and feel inclined to do so I will and that is the end of it, this country has gone far enough off the rails as far as I am concerned, but then I have always done what I want when I want so it will make no difference anyway, Rick

[R1cho]

Are we not getting near the aspect of like the police officers who, as they were not trained to rescue from water would not help a drowning person because of that, sorry but if I find someone in trouble and I can help with my 4x4 and feel inclined to do so I will and that is the end of it, this country has gone far enough off the rails as far as I am concerned, but then I have always done what I want when I want so it will make no difference anyway, Rick

:clap:clap:clap I agree, if i passed someone that needed help i would stop to help out as much as i could, as i would hope someone would do for me.

[BongoBerry]

most insurance companies don't have an issue with the 4x4 response work, it is good practise to let them know however.

with regards the "work" it varies from moving folks about for 999 call centre staff, picking up docs,nurses, specialists etc to the odd recovery

fuel allowances etc can depend on the organizations and agreements in place, i've done , receipts for fuel and mile allowances ... just depends how their systems work

all in all good fun and beats watching the trash on TV at night :)

[kbekl]

i can only talk about the nw group as i thin keach group is actually different

we have a training officer that was part of the army training center for off road driving and we have a second training officer which deals with maps reading ect and a third training officer that deals with equipment, we also have a recovery man with truck

we have monthly meets where we will train and use equipment just to keep busy and gets us out of the house lol

we have public liability insurance that covers our group only alsoinsurance companies are made aware of our involvement in the group normally via post

we have just been given £700 for our involvement in the Keswick 2 Barrow walk

we do have a training session in the lake district on sunday which is map reading in the snow (if it snows lol)

from our site
what is it as a team we are offering to the general public?

Generally anything we can do to help, within reason of course. We are not a glorified taxi service for example but if there is a genuine need then we are here to help

do you actually get called out to people in distress?

not so much, we arent an emergency service. we are more there to provide logistical support to the emergency services if required. obviously there are only so many 4x4's in the police/ambulance/fire service so where we can help we will do

what as a response team member are you actually required to perform?

we are not required to do anything. we do what we are able to do as long as its safe. no-one is expected to do anything they are not comfortable doing

and what is actually expected of you as a member as it isnt all training and going for meets ?

nothing is expected of you. the whole idea of being a volunteer is putting in the time if you are able. this can be an hour or the whole thing so nothing is expected of anyone other than acting responsibly and representing the group in a professional friendly manner

Its also important to remember that every call out to the group will be handled by the group co-ordinator (Dave) and he will evaluate whether it is something we should be involved in or not.
For example a call from a member of the public who can't get off their driveway to go to the shops will not be treated in the same way as a police call to assist a woman stranded in the middle of nowhere in the snow. Both are effectively a recovery job but one will carry a far higher likelihood of attendance.

All responders are quite within their rights to turn down a call out as well. If you do not feel a call is within your capabilities, is in your opinion dangerous or you are simply unable to attend then there is no problem saying no. Its better for someone to say no and another responder attend than to get one of our own in trouble as well as the original reason for the call out.

Finally every callout should have a minimum of 2 responders and vehicles attend. This provides for safety and security of the responders.

[makeitfit]

:clap:clap:clap I agree, if i passed someone that needed help i would stop to help out as much as i could, as i would hope someone would do for me.

I'm not stopping to help plod:p
I live in hope :augie

[briggie]

id like to help out with 4x4 response , but im not sure how id get on because of my mobility problems .. ie if i get stuck , or have to get out of the vehicle

[macabethiel]

The reason I bought my first 4 wd vehicle in January 2006 (An old Merc 300TE 4-Matic) was when I went fishing to Mapperly Reservoir near Ilkeston in a RWD Estate Car I got stuck in a light snow covering much like today.

A chap who had gone out in his Jap 4x4 for fun - I think it was a Musso gave me a tow as I had a tow rope in my boot. I was very grateful that he towed me the quarter of a mile up the slight hill. He would not take any money from me and I decided I needed 4 WD. I had had a few incidents of being almost stuck on wet grass and in mud at various venues so this was the last straw so as to speak.

My 300 TE was a great motor and cheap (£900) and when I sold it with collapsed rear self-levelling suspension I recovered £375 of the outlay by selling it off in bits.

I bought my R3mR Auto in August 2007 from a local trader who I have known for almost 40 years. I did not even realise that it was not a UK type Terrano I thought it was a parallel import !

I was despearate for a replacement vehicle and paid a lot for my truck it was £3300 with new MoT, tax and new tyres. It had had a lot of work done to maintain the vehicle and everything worked even the Aircon. The bodywork was in fantastic condition and free of dents etc.

As we speak her indoors is in France in the truck doing the booze run for Christmas and I know it will not let her down.

I now know why people like 4 x 4 vehicles I just wish I had bought one years ago! I carry a tow rope and would help anyone in difficulty but would only do this on the spur of the moment basis not as a volunteer. If I was 40 years younger then I would volunteer - stranded blondes in short skirts would be a speciality !

[Deleted account DD]

Are we not getting near the aspect of like the police officers who, as they were not trained to rescue from water would not help a drowning person because of that, sorry but if I find someone in trouble and I can help with my 4x4 and feel inclined to do so I will and that is the end of it, this country has gone far enough off the rails as far as I am concerned, but then I have always done what I want when I want so it will make no difference anyway, Rick


Lets get something straight here, it was not police officers, it was pcsos. In reality completely different. It was actually a cop who upon arrival went in. But of course you are limited by what the press says if you believe it :nenau The coroners inquest made far more sense.

Moving on.

Essentially the difference between spontaneous assistance eg jumping in to save a drowning person or stopping to tow a stranded car and all of the considerations involved are poles apart from pre planned operations which zippy and his colleagues are involved in.


A dead, debilitated or injured responder is not a good one.

[Deleted account DD]

I now know why people like 4 x 4 vehicles I just wish I had bought one years ago! I carry a tow rope and would help anyone in difficulty but would only do this on the spur of the moment basis not as a volunteer. If I was 40 years younger then I would volunteer - stranded blondes in short skirts would be a speciality !


:thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

with regards the "work" it varies from moving folks about for 999 call centre staff, picking up docs,nurses, specialists etc to the odd recovery




Absolutely appropriate too. However once youre sucked into it, particularly in whats commonly known as the "heroic phase" of an incident you will get asked to do and successfully carry out jobs beyond that remit.

Once you hit the trough beyond that and the cold light of day hits things will look different.

Fair do's as I said above spontaneous assistance is fine but dont let it become the norm.

The example I quoted regarding a 4x4 member transporting prisoners is a very real one and as a routine task he undertook entirely inappropriate.

As far as the insurance goes, anyone who is with the Admiral group does need to check up. I wasnt exactly impressed by the answer I got from them . Effectively 4x4 response work = full business use.

[zippy656]

stranded blondes in short skirts would be a speciality !


oh i wish....



my only blonde to date was a 50 year old paramedic all in he greens taking her to bristol ambulance station from Salibury..

[BongoBerry]

id like to help out with 4x4 response , but im not sure how id get on because of my mobility problems .. ie if i get stuck , or have to get out of the vehicle

Hiya,

if you want to get involved, and happen to be good at juggling a few balls at the same time while watching telly and playing a game of chess you may want to consider being a controller. (dispatching folks to meet demand and reallocating based on position etc)

absolutely essential role in response team, and you need not leave your chair let alone your house

just a thought :)

[BongoBerry]

Absolutely appropriate too. However once youre sucked into it, particularly in whats commonly known as the "heroic phase" of an incident you will get asked to do and successfully carry out jobs beyond that remit.

Once you hit the trough beyond that and the cold light of day hits things will look different.

Fair do's as I said above spontaneous assistance is fine but dont let it become the norm.

The example I quoted regarding a 4x4 member transporting prisoners is a very real one and as a routine task he undertook entirely inappropriate.

As far as the insurance goes, anyone who is with the Admiral group does need to check up. I wasnt exactly impressed by the answer I got from them . Effectively 4x4 response work = full business use.


Yep i hear you. Not to mention how many folks think you are a "company" .. so who do you work for? lol.... I run with the mentality of helping folks with a healthy dose of common sense on the side. I'm never putting myself, or my 4x4 at unecessary risk especially in the bad weather.

Road-side assistance can be covered by the group insurance if you call it in and its allocated to you. Its up to you to make the judgement call as to whether you are capable to assist.

of course not everything one does requires the groups approval either (good old fashioned neighbourlyness ... if thats a word)

[briggie]

just checked our insurance policies ... it says class 1 business use ..... is that ok ?:nenau

[BongoBerry]

just checked our insurance policies ... it says class 1 business use ..... is that ok ?:nenau

if thats your personal insurance it should be fine, some insurance companies try and stitch you up as they consider fuel money as payment and ergo you are a cab/taxi.

others realise that you volunteer for a charity and you are not "getting paid"

however, do contact your insurance company and ask them. its quite common practise for them to send you a letter stating that the volunteer work is ok

[Deleted account DD]

however, do contact your insurance company and ask them. its quite common practise for them to send you a letter stating that the volunteer work is ok

Agreed :thumb2 i always ask for written confirmation from them. Email is ok too as most archive all electronic comms for around 7 years so it can be shown it originated from them :D

As far as suggested involvement for Briggie, I would think he would enjoy it.

You'll find ,Briggie, you get involved with all sorts in connection with it as the CCA puts a statutory obligation on other responders, cat 1 & 2 to train and raise awareness BEFORE the incident.

W Yorks are pretty active if you make the right contact (or dont trendies say "touch base" arrghhhhhh puke)

:D

[briggie]

just checked our insurance policies ... it says class 1 business use ..... is that ok ?:nenau

what exactly does class 1 business use mean ? :nenau , we have to have it on both vehicles because sheilas work insist on it for any vehicles she may use

[kbekl]

also you will need to find what radio systems the group use we currently use mobiles but are looking into SAR and br at the mo

[Terranosaurus]

id like to help out with 4x4 response , but im not sure how id get on because of my mobility problems .. ie if i get stuck , or have to get out of the vehicle

No reason you can't be involved, your local group Yorks-Lincs 4x4 Response have a member who uses a mobility scooter and he has been very useful. Dinky from here too, he isn't the most mobile of people but has been on a number of callouts.

The next local meeting is Wednesday 15th December 2010, Sair Inn (http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/13/1321/Sair_Inn/Linthwaite) from 20.00hrs.

also you will need to find what radio systems the group use we currently use mobiles but are looking into SAR and br at the mo

Is that NW4x4R?

To the best of my knowledge mobile phone is still the primary communication method for all 4x4 Response groups. Most supplement this with CB (very common in 4x4 community anyway), Amateur radio (good number of responders are amateurs and many groups arrange courses) and PMR for close range stuff as they are very cheap. There are a few other systems in use but ultimately none can provide the national coverage a mobile phone can. 4x4 needs to have resilient forms of communications but it is not our remit to provide emergency comms, Raynet already do that, bridges are being built at local an national level to enable closer working with them.

Briggie for YL4x4R you don't need any form of radio, nice to have but not compulsory.

[kbekl]

No reason you can't be involved, your local group Yorks-Lincs 4x4 Response have a member who uses a mobility scooter and he has been very useful. Dinky from here too, he isn't the most mobile of people but has been on a number of callouts.

The next local meeting is Wednesday 15th December 2010, Sair Inn (http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/13/1321/Sair_Inn/Linthwaite) from 20.00hrs.



Is that NW4x4R?

To the best of my knowledge mobile phone is still the primary communication method for all 4x4 Response groups. Most supplement this with CB (very common in 4x4 community anyway), Amateur radio (good number of responders are amateurs and many groups arrange courses) and PMR for close range stuff as they are very cheap. There are a few other systems in use but ultimately none can provide the national coverage a mobile phone can. 4x4 needs to have resilient forms of communications but it is not our remit to provide emergency comms, Raynet already do that, bridges are being built at local an national level to enable closer working with them.

Briggie for YL4x4R you don't need any form of radio, nice to have but not compulsory.
yes nw4x4r, it has recently be mentioned but they are looking into a group license, don't know where it will end up but at the mo it is just an idea

do all the other groups attend events or similar as we have a couple in 2011 comming up last was the Keswick to Barrow Walk:thumbs

[briggie]

i have a very good radio ( see my signature ) ..... oh and a little aerial :augie

[Terranosaurus]

i have a very good radio ( see my signature ) ..... oh and a little aerial :augie

4x4 response vehicles need to be squeaky clean legal or the police and other services won't use us, so buners are a no no I'm afriad - not to mention highly antisocial.

[briggie]

4x4 response vehicles need to be squeaky clean legal or the police and other services won't use us, so buners are a no no I'm afriad - not to mention highly antisocial.

as far as im aware it is pefectly legal to own a linear amp , ... it is however illegal to use it .... my stalker is perfectly legal anyway ( on legal fm )

[Terranosaurus]

Perfectly true - very stupid law - ad are you telling me you don't use it?

[briggie]

Perfectly true - very stupid law - ad are you telling me you don't use it?

it looks very pretty

[briggie]

i might also add that it is illegal to exceed 70mph ...... and extremly anti social too ..... most cars on the road today are capable of speeds far in excess of this .......i wonder how many do actually ?

[kbekl]

i might also add that it is illegal to exceed 70mph ...... and extremly anti social too ..... most cars on the road today are capable of speeds far in excess of this .......i wonder how many do actually ?

well the pete thats strike 2 for you :lol:lol:lol

[briggie]

well the pete thats strike 2 for you :lol:lol:lol

qed

[jims-terrano]

Watching and enjoying reading this thread with interest. Terranosaurus is defo they guy to speak to about 4x4 response.

Pete, you armed with a mobile phone and a second battery to run your radio from could be very usefull to any vunteer group. Pete you have something that is worth far more than any qual, that's experience. You could easily run a mobile control station. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you souldn't join them and go out on shouts it's just that you've probably had more operating experience than possibly anyone else on here.

If all goes well for me then I should be able to run Foundation Courses and arrange the exams as a spin off from my ATC work.

Just out of interest, if you were out in the snow with your truck minding your own business and you stumble upon someone that needs a tug out of a hole. So tow strops attached off you go and oh no their chassis is bent or something. Just who will be held liable? In this day and age people are only too willing to claim the shirt off your back so I can only advise caution.


Jim

[MontysMaverick]

Watching and enjoying reading this thread with interest. Terranosaurus is defo they guy to speak to about 4x4 response.

Pete, you armed with a mobile phone and a second battery to run your radio from could be very usefull to any vunteer group. Pete you have something that is worth far more than any qual, that's experience. You could easily run a mobile control station. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you souldn't join them and go out on shouts it's just that you've probably had more operating experience than possibly anyone else on here.

If all goes well for me then I should be able to run Foundation Courses and arrange the exams as a spin off from my ATC work.

Just out of interest, if you were out in the snow with your truck minding your own business and you stumble upon someone that needs a tug out of a hole. So tow strops attached off you go and oh no their chassis is bent or something. Just who will be held liable? In this day and age people are only too willing to claim the shirt off your back so I can only advise caution.


Jim
Totally agree with regards of petes operating experience,knowledge etc even something like phonetics can be difficult to learn if youve zero radio experience, and he would be a big asset to any response organisation. Although, I do feel that Pete would benefit from doing one of your foundation courses as hed fly it with his knowledge and operating experience and would gain by being totally legit, Pete you are right with regards to your linear and even the speed limit, but this aint the point is it ..really. at least if pete had a foundation licence he could volunteer for both the response groups and raynet, as raynet around this location is struggling for good operators who are prepared to go that extra mile. As for the merits of bending someones chassis, this is a very real thing in todays climate and I would only assist someone if they had they correct towing eyes fitted to their vehicle, if they didnt or werent prepared to use them, then I would offer to assist and take them to a safe point like their home or a local garage etc.

Pete, get the foundation course done and offer your services, it can be a real way of giving something back to society

[lacroupade]

yes nw4x4r, it has recently be mentioned but they are looking into a group license, don't know where it will end up but at the mo it is just an idea

do all the other groups attend events or similar as we have a couple in 2011 comming up last was the Keswick to Barrow Walk:thumbs

why on earth would anyone want to walk to Barrow????? the best thing about that dump is the road out of it :lol:lol:lol

[briggie]

Totally agree with regards of petes operating experience,knowledge etc even something like phonetics can be difficult to learn if youve zero radio experience, and he would be a big asset to any response organisation. Although, I do feel that Pete would benefit from doing one of your foundation courses as hed fly it with his knowledge and operating experience and would gain by being totally legit, Pete you are right with regards to your linear and even the speed limit, but this aint the point is it ..really. at least if pete had a foundation licence he could volunteer for both the response groups and raynet, as raynet around this location is struggling for good operators who are prepared to go that extra mile. As for the merits of bending someones chassis, this is a very real thing in todays climate and I would only assist someone if they had they correct towing eyes fitted to their vehicle, if they didnt or werent prepared to use them, then I would offer to assist and take them to a safe point like their home or a local garage etc.

Pete, get the foundation course done and offer your services, it can be a real way of giving something back to society

thankyou monty and others for your input , its something i have been considering for some time ( ask jim ) , but a couple of things really get to me . one is the fact that i allready have a perfectly legit set up , and secondly this " holier than thou " attitude from some hams who have a foundation licence after a short exam , and are telling me off for my equipment after 30 years !!!:rolleyes:..... it really gets on my tits

[briggie]

although i must admit raynet interests me tremendously .... for those who are as old as me ... i used to be a react monitor in the 80s :naughty

[jims-terrano]

although i must admit raynet interests me tremendously .... for those who are as old as me ... i used to be a react monitor in the 80s :naughty

Good god Ch 9 man ehh, yep your old Pete :lol:lol

Jim

[briggie]

me and jim have had quite a few chats with regard to my intentions , however . the sheer cost of equipment is cost prohibitive at the mo , a foundation licence is not me at all ..... i try my best in every thing i do ( not always succesfull , but i try ) .... and would only be happy with a full ham licence ..... so i dont see the point in purchasing equipment for a foundation holder ..... see my point ?

[jims-terrano]

thankyou monty and others for your input , its something i have been considering for some time ( ask jim ) , but a couple of things really get to me . one is the fact that i allready have a perfectly legit set up , and secondly this " holier than thou " attitude from some hams who have a foundation licence after a short exam , and are telling me off for my equipment after 30 years !!!:rolleyes:..... it really gets on my tits

Don't let the odd one or two spoil it for you Pete. Plenty people cut their teeth on CB and still use both. I'd have an operator with your experience and common sense in RAYNET any day Pete. Your nearest would probably be Calderdale and I could put you in touch with them no prob's. Best thing is just because your a member of one group it doesn't stop you helping other groups too.

Jim

[jims-terrano]

me and jim have had quite a few chats with regard to my intentions , however . the sheer cost of equipment is cost prohibitive at the mo , a foundation licence is not me at all ..... i try my best in every thing i do ( not always succesfull , but i try ) .... and would only be happy with a full ham licence ..... so i dont see the point in purchasing equipment for a foundation holder ..... see my point ?

You can use same kit just drop power down if it is above your license. Some nice Dual Band hand held's with extended recieve for £89!!!!

Jim

[Terranosaurus]

this was just posted on YK4x4R forum

Hi
A Foundation course will be starting at Keighley radio club in the New Year.
The course will be about 9 to 10 hours work.
This will be done on a Thursday night at the club.
We will need to know how many students we have by the 5th Jan and will hope to start the course on the 13th Jan 2011.

http://www.bdcc.co.uk/XMarksTheSpot.htm?g=SE0656442238&t=SE0656442238


And if I was being holier than though then sorry but we have the being 100% legit put on us from from user services as Responders.

[Deleted account DD]

what exactly does class 1 business use mean ? :nenau , we have to have it on both vehicles because sheilas work insist on it for any vehicles she may use

Not sure, there are nuances between companies, I always tell them (usually on the phone which they state they record :thumb2) exactly what tasks I'll be undertaking and the mileage pa covered then let them decide.

[Deleted account DD]

Just out of interest, if you were out in the snow with your truck minding your own business and you stumble upon someone that needs a tug out of a hole. So tow strops attached off you go and oh no their chassis is bent or something. Just who will be held liable? In this day and age people are only too willing to claim the shirt off your back so I can only advise caution.


Jim


Thats a very very good point and well worthy of consideration :thumb2

It also clearly shows the difference between predetermined and spontaneous response.

Generally if it got as far as someone standing in a court trying to get the shirt off your back and youd helped them out when you came across them stranded I would suggest its unlikely the decision would go against you. You acted in good faith to preserve life and property whilst attempting to prevent further loss of either. You did not have the facility or time to pre determine the risks and potential problems in doing that and acted in good faith :thumb2

However when you are responding or deployed on a predetermined basis exercising declared skills, abilities and equipment you have generally had ample time to consider all of the common risks and pitfalls AND produce measures and procedures to mitigate them. Fail to do that and you could end up right in it as they say.

The more "modern" , "trendy" or "aware" amongst us may call that risk assesment which others would leap upon and slag off as "whats happening to our country" . However the simple fact of the matter is its common sense which in many occasions is sadly uncommon so things need pointing out and establishing formally :doh:naughty

A god example of a protocol based on say Raynet deploying (purely hypothetical) may contain the caveat:

"Raynet volunteers will not be directed by the incident commander to undertake any role other than providing telecommunication links. This does not however prevent any Raynet volunteer acting upon their own initiative to provide humanitarian assistance as they see fit and at their own discretion and at their own risk"

So as the incident commander or requesting agency have stuck them out there, they have clearly stated the parameters of directed operation and given the incident commander (usually Police Silver in a major Incident) and the volunteer agency members (and their liaison officer) a clear steer.

Be careful out there ;):thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

why on earth would anyone want to walk to Barrow????? the best thing about that dump is the road out of it :lol:lol:lol


:thumb2


we recce'd the place with a view to returning with the caravan.

We had a weekend in Scotland instead :augie

[Terranosaurus]

With all the talk of recovery and damaging vehilces I'd just like to point out that in general that is not what 4x4 response does, there may be an occasional tow but not recovery - if a vhicle is that stuck it will e clear of the highway and can stay where it is until proper recovery can make it. Cars that have lost traction may be towed out of the way to clear roads on occasion but most 4x4R work is in replacing convention vehicles in adverse conditions, be they user services vehicles or that of there staff getting into work. For instance we do a lot of key staff into work "taxi runs", but this very night we have a vehicle at a hospital to support the out of hours service if they need to do home visits. Other examples are district nurse runs etc

[briggie]

With all the talk of recovery and damaging vehilces I'd just like to point out that in general that is not what 4x4 response does, there may be an occasional tow but not recovery - if a vhicle is that stuck it will e clear of the highway and can stay where it is until proper recovery can make it. Cars that have lost traction may be towed out of the way to clear roads on occasion but most 4x4R work is in replacing convention vehicles in adverse conditions, be they user services vehicles or that of there staff getting into work. For instance we do a lot of key staff into work "taxi runs", but this very night we have a vehicle at a hospital to support the out of hours service if they need to do home visits. Other examples are district nurse runs etc

nurses :sly.... in uniforms ? :naughty

[zippy656]

carefull, youll be in hospital again....

[MontysMaverick]

nurses :sly.... in uniforms ? :naughty

This is more like it....


As for your replies about the ham radio bit, Pete you know as well as I do that whatever "hobby" you engage in there are a few who are always seen as "holier than thou" but I can honestly say that I havent come across many, maybe 3 in nearly 40 yrs, Im active on the bands everyday, and yes I hear people complaining about operating techniques etc but at the end of the day Ham Radio has many facets and I do commend you for saying that youd want a full blown class 1 licence, but that is a personal issue that only you can decide as to how far you want to go, but Pete, as Jim says you are a excellent asset to any associated part of radio communications what ever radio you may be using, Hf gear is available at resonable rates and vhf/uhf is coming down in price daily, If I can help in anyway if you do decide to pursue your licence let me know, anytime Pete.

[briggie]

This is more like it....


As for your replies about the ham radio bit, Pete you know as well as I do that whatever "hobby" you engage in there are a few who are always seen as "holier than thou" but I can honestly say that I havent come across many, maybe 3 in nearly 40 yrs, Im active on the bands everyday, and yes I hear people complaining about operating techniques etc but at the end of the day Ham Radio has many facets and I do commend you for saying that youd want a full blown class 1 licence, but that is a personal issue that only you can decide as to how far you want to go, but Pete, as Jim says you are a excellent asset to any associated part of radio communications what ever radio you may be using, Hf gear is available at resonable rates and vhf/uhf is coming down in price daily, If I can help in anyway if you do decide to pursue your licence let me know, anytime Pete.

anyway ..... back to the nurses in uniform ..........:naughty

[Deleted account DD]

With all the talk of recovery and damaging vehilces I'd just like to point out that in general that is not what 4x4 response does, there may be an occasional tow but not recovery - if a vhicle is that stuck it will e clear of the highway and can stay where it is until proper recovery can make it. Cars that have lost traction may be towed out of the way to clear roads on occasion but most 4x4R work is in replacing convention vehicles in adverse conditions, be they user services vehicles or that of there staff getting into work. For instance we do a lot of key staff into work "taxi runs", but this very night we have a vehicle at a hospital to support the out of hours service if they need to do home visits. Other examples are district nurse runs etc

and a good job is done too


But I do think the damaging vehicles was a good and relevant example of how it may go wrong :thumb2

You may (or may not :augie) be suprised how many individual and groups , i stress at all levels from all sectors, often need a clear steer.

The devils in the detail and that's where it goes wrong. For example have a look at the COTAG 4x4 response site. I want to make it clear I am not criticizing them or their work but if you have a look at the description on the site, which presumably was authorized at their highest management level, its a good example of misunderstanding.

Grampian Police are NOT the senior cat 1 responder. They are a, as in one of many, responder. They do not coordinate the tactical and operational. They coordinate the operational , tactical AND strategic roles.

My point is that whilst that info is clearly posted in best faith, it is misleading. What else is misunderstood as well and would need clarifying?

What happens if the incident commander instructs a volunteer crew to do something "because they can" ???

Is it within scope? do they have a mandate ? does the commander ?

Never mind wrecking cars, what happens when someone is seriously injured or worse????

[MontysMaverick]

and a good job is done too


But I do think the damaging vehicles was a good and relevant example of how it may go wrong :thumb2

You may (or may not :augie) be suprised how many individual and groups , i stress at all levels from all sectors, often need a clear steer.

The devils in the detail and that's where it goes wrong. For example have a look at the COTAG 4x4 response site. I want to make it clear I am not criticizing them or their work but if you have a look at the description on the site, which presumably was authorized at their highest management level, its a good example of misunderstanding.

Grampian Police are NOT the senior cat 1 responder. They are a, as in one of many, responder. They do not coordinate the tactical and operational. They coordinate the operational , tactical AND strategic roles.

My point is that whilst that info is clearly posted in best faith, it is misleading. What else is misunderstood as well and would need clarifying?

What happens if the incident commander instructs a volunteer crew to do something "because they can" ???

Is it within scope? do they have a mandate ? does the commander ?

Never mind wrecking cars, what happens when someone is seriously injured or worse????

Daved, Good point, its a bit like smoking.... as far as I know no one has ever commited a offence after having a NORMAL FAG but theres plenty whove commited offences after having a FUNNY FAG, the point is the devils in the detail,

Im all for helping people and have done so in the past and probably will in the future, BUT today you have to think before you act, whereas before you acted and then thought about "what if this and what if that"

[briggie]

nurses .... uniforms... black stockings.....short skirts........

[Terranosaurus]

BTW Dave to the best of my knowledge COTAG are defunct as they ran out of goverment grant money.

[MontysMaverick]

nurses .... uniforms... black stockings.....short skirts........

Calm down dear........ as said by Mr Winner :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs

[briggie]

actually joking apart , ive been looking at the raynet operating manual , very good , but most is like daved says common sense

[Deleted account DD]

BTW Dave to the best of my knowledge COTAG are defunct as they ran out of goverment grant money.

LMAO (at the irony) All the more reason the innacuracies should be removed, theyre still advertising their services.

However on a more serious note they are not exclusive in that. I googled and they came up first.

[Fez_uk]

I joined raynet over a year back, Great fun and helps out the community.

[Deleted account DD]

I joined raynet over a year back, Great fun and helps out the community.

what jobs have you been on?

[Fez_uk]

just events like runs, horse riding, motocross & a stage at the rally GB. I didn't do rally gb as I had to go to my nans birthday party that weekend.

It was pretty busy this autumm. One weekend we did 3 events.

[Deleted account DD]

just events like runs, horse riding, motocross & a stage at the rally GB. I didn't do rally gb as I had to go to my nans birthday party that weekend.

It was pretty busy this autumm. One weekend we did 3 events.

:clap


Make sure you get onto some of the multi agency training days and exercises ran by the cat1 & 2 responders . You'll find a whole new and fascinating world :thumb2

Someone heading up your raynet gp should be in contact with them via the Local Resilience Forum and their membership of the V A Subgroup (though it may be known as something being in Wales :D

However theres folk on here can advise you on that better than me :D