Lest we forget

[briggie]

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y311/phuctiphino/60d2686477560c1d22bbe7ac4e71ae57b4e271d0.jpg


They went with songs to the battle, they were young.Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,They fell with their faces to the foe.They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.At the going down of the sun and in the morning,We will remember them.

[jims-terrano]

A cause close to me, I shall be observing the silence tomorrow. All 3 of my kids will be in the parade on Sunday, eldest will be in the band leading the parade. That'll bring a lump to my throat.

Jim

[Deleted account DD]

I too will be observing tomorrow :thumb2:thumb2

[R1cho]

as will I, my brother is in the army, goes out to afghan on tour just before xmas.

[Peasgood]

I will be quite honest and admit to usually forgetting about the 2 minutes silence. I rarely know what time it is and am usually on my own anyway.
Having said that, I think of them very often throughout the year and will certainly never forget them.
I'm not really sure why, but it is something very close to my heart. It was all before my time and only just within my parents time (WW2). My Gran told me she could remember WW1. Even so, none of my grandparents went to war. My paternal grandfather was decorated for his home guard activities and my maternal grandfather was in a reserved occupation. I do have very strong regard for all of those that did go.
I can well remember in my younger days the older folk that had arms and legs missing etc. over time they gave got less and less to the point where you don't really see any anymore. I'm not forgetting the younger victims of more recent conflicts, but thankfully they are not in such great numbers as those of the two world wars.
I have the greatest respect for the bravery, courage and dignity for those that gave. I am eternally grateful for what they did and for the fact that it wasn't me.
May they rest in peace.

[briggie]

Dulce et Decorum est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame, all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.
Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! -- An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime. --
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin,
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs
Bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, --
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen

[solarman216]

I remember in secondary school in London we had a teacher who was severley disfigured and was unable to walk properly, his face was contorted, and he had difficulty in speaking quickly, but he was a great teacher as as far as I was concerned, but he became subject to harasment from some of the more active members of the students, he was like he was because he survived a concentration camp, I only wish I could have done something to help but at that time I could not, I did not fully understand, I will always remember, Rick

[briggie]

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori:
mors et fugacem persequitur virum
nec parcit inbellis iuventae
poplitibus timidove tergo.

"How sweet and fitting it is to die for one's country:
Death pursues the man who flees,
spares not the hamstrings or cowardly backs
Of battle-shy youths."

[solarman216]

Sorry Pete do not quite understand, but guess it is good, Rick

[Peasgood]

Our science teacher, Mr Littlemore, was a lovely fella. Kind, helpful etc. No control over the class at all. I think his pupils just gave him hell to be honest.
Apparently he was a POW, one of those Bridge over the river Kwai men.
How little did we realise at the time. We knew, but we had no understanding whatsoever.

Mr Roberts, another science teacher, OK when he was in the right humour, but to be quite truthful he wasn't fit to be around kids. Also a POW that suffered.

Mr Wainwright, a maths teacher. He was a "Flyboy". One question about spitfires and he would talk for the whole lesson on that subject. Probably learned more about planes than maths in his class.

Then the others that never mentioned it at all, yet were ther just the same.

God bless them all.

[briggie]

Sorry Pete do not quite understand, but guess it is good, Rick

"How sweet and fitting it is to die for one's country:
Death pursues the man who flees,
spares not the hamstrings or cowardly backs
Of battle-shy youths."

[jims-terrano]

Well guy's kind of similar subject but for the modern day heroes. I'm involved with a team who'll be doing a canal boat pull along the Leeds Liverpool next year in aid of Help for Heroes. Still planning at the mo but I'm sure I'll find a way to get donations nearer the time:thumb2

All being well you'll be able to track us via satelite tracking and Google Maps. Even got a week long pass from the Mrs:thumbs

More info to follow early next year.

Jim

[briggie]

Well guy's kind of similar subject but for the modern day heroes. I'm involved with a team who'll be doing a canal boat pull along the Leeds Liverpool next year in aid of Help for Heroes. Still planning at the mo but I'm sure I'll find a way to get donations nearer the time:thumb2

All being well you'll be able to track us via satelite tracking and Google Maps. Even got a week long pass from the Mrs:thumbs

More info to follow early next year.

Jim

stick a tow rope on the back of my wheelchair mate , id be only too happy to help :thumb2

[jims-terrano]

stick a tow rope on the back of my wheelchair mate , id be only too happy to help :thumb2

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[kbekl]

Rudyard Kipling-1916

"'Have you news of my boy Jack?'
Not this tide.
'When d'you think that he'll come back?'
Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

'Has any one else had word of him?'
Not this tide.
For what is sunk will hardly swim,
Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

'Oh, dear, what comfort can I find?'
None this tide,
Nor any tide,
Except he did not shame his kind -
Not even with that wind blowing, and that tide.

Then hold your head up all the more,
This tide,
And every tide;
Because he was the son you bore,
And gave to that wind blowing and that tide!"

For those that gave in the past,in the present and those who will give in the future that most revered of all things....Life......

[lacroupade]

How sweet and fitting it is to die for one's country

Despite having family members who died in both wars, or in one case many years afterwards from its effect when part of the first naval presence in Hiroshima after the bomb, from having served in the RAF myself and having the utmost respect for those who put themselves in danger, I don't forget, but I consider it neither sweet nor fitting.....it was that kind of sickly sentiment that let the Haigs of this world send countless millions of young men to often utterly pointless deaths....but then thats just me I suppose.:rose

[briggie]

Despite having family members who died in both wars, or in one case many years afterwards from its effect when part of the first naval presence in Hiroshima after the bomb, from having served in the RAF myself and having the utmost respect for those who put themselves in danger, I don't forget, but I consider it neither sweet nor fitting.....it was that kind of sickly sentiment that let the Haigs of this world send countless millions of young men to often utterly pointless deaths....but then thats just me I suppose.:rose

i merely translated the verse

[briggie]

i merely translated the verse

i quote the bit you mention my friend....

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen

[Liam]

I think those who died should be remembered and they will be by their families and friends. Just think it's an insult to those who survived with life changing injuries that they are still treated like shit and largely depend on the great work of charitable organisations to maintain some type of dignified life. Yes by all means remember those who died but don't forget the needs of the soldiers and their families who will need support for the rest of their lives. They also sacrificed a lot and they should receive support from the Services and the Government who sent them to war.

[ClanWolf]

Summer grasses -
Of heroes dreams
All that remains

- Matsuo Basho
...
For my grandfather, great grandfather and all who have fought & died to enforce the will of the good, the misguided or the greedy. Hate the war & its reasons, but never fail to respect the warrior.

[Peasgood]

I think those who died should be remembered and they will be by their families and friends. Just think it's an insult to those who survived with life changing injuries that they are still treated like shit and largely depend on the great work of charitable organisations to maintain some type of dignified life. Yes by all means remember those who died but don't forget the needs of the soldiers and their families who will need support for the rest of their lives. They also sacrificed a lot and they should receive support from the Services and the Government who sent them to war.

Is that not what the donations to the poppy appeal goes towards?

[MontysMaverick]

Ever since a unscheduled visit/holiday to the "fields of Flanders" this day has always been a time for me to remember those that gave their lives, Until youve been there and seen the vast open fields that you can imagine were just sludge pits, and the row after row of headstones,you cannot imagine what happened in the 1st world war, we went to ypres and vimy ridge and paschendale and loads of other "monuments but one that really sticks in my mind was a tiny little bit of belgium close to messines that had a small walled cemetary that was called "mud corner" at the edge of a wood we stood there for about 3/4 of a hour and never heard anything, no birds, airplanes, cars, nothing and to see the headstones with 17,18,19, and 20 yrs old carved on them just brought a tear to your eye.It isnt really recognised by us brits but if youve been to any of these areas you will also note just how many german cemetaries there is as well, vast lines of black/pewter grey crosses, if ever there should be a law that should be made it is that every schoolkid in the land should visit Flanders, it would make them appreciate things that are taken for granted for sure, When we were at Vimy we noticed 4 coaches of Canadian schoolkids visiting, yet no british coaches were seen in 2 weeks. Its only a short hop over the channel and a hrs drive yet its overlooked by so many people
I can only say that if you have one of those "will do before I die" lists then Flanders should be on there, as after visiting you certainly appreciate life.

God Bless all those that gave so we may live.

[Deleted account DD]

Having served in the military (as did or does a significant number of the rest of my family) then like a pillock followed on into a career that has loads of confrontation I now hold the view that war and fighting are on most occasions futile.

One of our sons is in the Artillery and has served in theatre. I admire and am very proud of him and his colleagues , my wife and I support the British Legion , SSAFA and HfHeroes to name 3 ,with a vengance but I do not support in any way many of the conflicts our so called leaders take them and us into.

Iraq particularly sticks in my throat .

[MontysMaverick]

Having served in the military (as did or does a significant number of the rest of my family) then like a pillock followed on into a career that has loads of confrontation I now hold the view that war and fighting are on most occasions futile.

One of our sons is in the Artillery and has served in theatre. I admire and am very proud of him and his colleagues , my wife and I support the British Legion , SSAFA and HfHeroes to name 3 ,with a vengance but I do not support in any way many of the conflicts our so called leaders take them and us into.

Iraq particularly sticks in my throat .

Dave, Totally agree with what your saying, and I thank both you and your son for your dedication, my only small point is that this country of ours has continually tried/ helped others around the world to make a better place for all to live in,in a way this is "our history" and I like many at school didnt appreciate what had happened in 2 world wars as far as the losses were concerned and yet 25 yrs plus later, Im standing in flanders wondering "why" why all these young men had to loose their lives. Im sure that had I been in the same position as a impressonable young lad visiting flanders on a school trip I maybe just maybe would of done things a little differently in my life, but as everything its just a opinion, However I too do get very very upset when anyone says Iraq and WMD in the same breath. Fag time me thinks, cant beat a JPS Blue for calming me nerves.... see, only writing it gets me going.

[briggie]

god bless dad , uncle mike and all those who gave the ultimate sacrifice .

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[lacroupade]

my only small point is that this country of ours has continually tried/ helped others around the world to make a better place for all to live in,in a way this is "our history" ........ However I too do get very very upset when anyone says Iraq and WMD in the same breath. Fag time me thinks, cant beat a JPS Blue for calming me nerves.... see, only writing it gets me going.

Monty I know exactly where you are coming from....but then I'm 56 and was brought up in the shadow of WWII and Korea....and I've stood and pondered at the place where my great uncle crashed his aircraft and burned to death....WWI was an especial enigma in that even today, can anyone truly tell us what the hell it was these people fought over????

As for our global intervention, well there are two angles to that aren't there. The first one that arises from our historical empire (the largest ever remember) where we pillaged half the planet then left them to it, so we have a degree of responsibility - particularly where its a reasonable certainty that we won't get overly stiffed by the opposition....the Falklands springs to mind (and before anyone kicks off, thats NOT to belittle in any way the sacrifices our lads made).

Then there are the "other motive" ones.....for example, we let nearly a million people die in Rwanda, yet deem it necessary to commit enormous resources to the invasion and maintenance of a country where some insignificant dictator murdered perhaps 5000-8000 of his people using gas etc..

Oh but then silly me, I forgot about the oil didn't I, not to mention our ass-kissing relations with the US that dragged us into Afghanistan as well.....I mean apparently we went to stop the Taliban didn't we.....so what about the Israelis appalling treatment of the Palestinians? Thats OK apparently?

My point here of course is that all that political crap simply underlines the tragic, appalling and often pointless waste of life our armed forces suffer as a result....

Times like this I wish I smoked :doh :thumb2

[Deleted account DD]

Monty & lacroupe I agree with much of what youre saying.

I remember visiting Versailles and the Hall of Mirrors when I was 12. The significance of that place was completely lost upon me then, now Im very keen to go back for another look :thumb2

I do think though we have to pick and choose what we "police" of the old empire, theres just too much for us to handle. Our fault but know your limits.

Lacroupe alludes to the oil and I would add the glorious green vote as its known , that I strongly suspect have driven at least one of our more recent wars.

I can remember laying in bed (hospital!!!) watching the invasion of Iraq unfurl. I cringed and felt very sad when I realised the quality of intelligence, or more appropriately the lack of it.

To put it in perspective pre desert storm one we knew details down to where certain Iraqi individuals spent their evenings, yet a few years on we couldnt find several big wagons that were supposedly carrying out development of womd out in t he desert !!!!!:eek:

Do be serious, but then................control of oil maybe :augie:augie


(or perhaps even finish off what daddy didnt???)

[rustic]

I always remember Black Adder with the field of poppies at the end, the slow speed, the red poppies and the mens actions knowing they were going to die when they went over the top, is one of the most moving scenes I have ever seen. Thinking about it now brings a tear to my eye.

We will never forget what those men died for, they were told to do it, it might make a difference.

I think we all came into this world to make a difference somewhere.

What can I do today to make a difference?

[Liam]

Well,I suppose I'm cynical,but it strikes me that if you did bring British schoolkids to see where their great grandparents fought and died, then maybe the schoolkids wouldn't be in such a hurry to join the Services and then the politicians would have a problem, no cannon fodder for any war they might wage on foreign soil. Maybe the glorification of these memorial services continues to persuade people that it is worth fighting and dying for their country.

Personally,I have yet to see a piece of land worth me or members of my family dying for,especially if it is outside our national border. Don't wish to insult or upset anyone these are just my views and I do respect those who make the choice to join up and of course I think of the futility of their deaths and even though I'm Irish, Armistice Day was always seen on TV when I was growing up. May they Rest in Peace.

[lacroupade]

Well as you know only too well Liam, its mostly politics and extremist religion....neither worth dying for IMHO.

Hope you are well mate? :thumb2

[Liam]

Definitely how it is,unfortunately.

[jims-terrano]

Well this afternoon was one of the proudest moments. All 3 of my kids were in the Rememberance Parade through our town. The eldest in ATC started the parade with the drum's and then his squadron finished the parade by standing at the dispersal point drumming the whole parade back. It was lump in the throat time and nearly shed a tear when the whole crowd of people gave them a round of applause:clap

Jim

[Deleted account DD]

I always remember Black Adder with the field of poppies at the end, the slow speed, the red poppies and the mens actions knowing they were going to die when they went over the top, is one of the most moving scenes I have ever seen. Thinking about it now brings a tear to my eye.



It was an exceptionally poignant ending for what was (even though satirical) a comedy series.

I was on a RAF Squadron at the time and Blackadder was a BIG hit and seen a great pis take but the morning shift after that was screened the comments were quite subdued, it hit the mark.

[Deleted account DD]

Well this afternoon was one of the proudest moments. All 3 of my kids were in the Rememberance Parade through our town. The eldest in ATC started the parade with the drum's and then his squadron finished the parade by standing at the dispersal point drumming the whole parade back. It was lump in the throat time and nearly shed a tear when the whole crowd of people gave them a round of applause:clap

Jim


Good on them :clap:clap

(ps Im a bit of an anorak anyway RAF March is my ring tone :augie )

[jims-terrano]

You should of seen em Dave, drum sticks held at the top lip when not playing the snares, the bass drum. Seen em doing this display before at an open day but this was something special.

Hope the vet's following on enjoyed it too, hope it made them feel respected not just the fallen.

Jim

[Deleted account DD]

Never met an soldier yet who didnt enjoy being acknowledged or didnt like parades :thumb2 most of them very modest. Im sure those there enjoyed it.

Back in the 80s we used to host some vets every year in our sports club. Great bunch.

We used to put on a barrel for them (courtesy of John Smiths brewery down the road) what those blokes couldnt teach us about flirting with WAAFs and supping ale just wasnt worth knowing :thumb2

[jims-terrano]

my old man went through a few years going to his old baracks for the weekend. They had to let them stay as they probably couldnt walk but couldnt hold it against him.

Jim